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asudan
Joined: 13 Apr 2014 Posts: 82
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:32 pm Post subject: Combat of thieves |
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Would it be too far fetched to allow thieves to backstab and circle stab with a spear? Also curious as to why thieves would have the sword skill. |
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Esivole Immortal
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 959 Location: Somewhere beyond the present.
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Spears used to be allowed for backstabbing, not circles. I believe they were removed for balance issues in combat styles/weapon type. As far as swords go, have you ever seen every picture of a highway robber? Always a cutlass or short sword, just saying. I think it fits themy balance wise as well. |
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Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:51 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't mind, I think thieves could use a buff |
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Ceridwel Immortal
Joined: 01 Feb 2008 Posts: 3388 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:08 am Post subject: |
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Make them immune to defecation and telepaths cost half mana. |
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Lorne Immortal
Joined: 20 Jan 2004 Posts: 456
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Yea not sure why they were removed for backstab. There was alot of super badass one handed spears back then, so maybe that was why it was OP. Wouldn't mind seeing them back in, I think the selection of one handed spears are pretty balanced and actually somewhat limited.
Not sure if I agree they need a buff, there just haven't been any super competent thieves. Thieves have always been pretty badass when played right. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10368 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:52 am Post subject: |
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There's a magic formula to making a class considered shitty to be OP and I've found it. You just give them haste. That's it. They win everything. For thief I would call this skill "killing spree" and it would be granted for a couple rounds by attacks of opportunity - backstab, circle stab, and anything else that involves stabs, I will stab a man for tacos without thinking, I'm deadly serious. Therefore haste. |
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Rothak
Joined: 03 Oct 2011 Posts: 257 Location: Japan
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:10 am Post subject: |
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I miss having spears be able to back stab, IMO it makes sense since you don't swing a spear around like a sword/staff/whatever. Also, I think that a slith thief's tail attack should be based off of weapon advantage instead of combat advantage since rogues seek weapon type advantage for their combat skills where warriors (only other slith class) seek combat advantage for their combat skills. Just my 2 cents. |
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ivindel
Joined: 20 Nov 2015 Posts: 169 Location: Singapore
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Well, I think thieves are fairly strong if played well and personally I don't think they need a buff. Two thieves to look out for will be Lourch and Ulsa. They are doing pretty well and are already showing us how effective thieves can be. Suffice to say, no one likes to fight a thief because you will always lose something no matter what. |
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Merlandox
Joined: 31 Mar 2016 Posts: 264
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Lol. Thieves balance should be done in this way. Thief vs Naked enemy. If a thief is fighting someone head up who even have a piece of living wood on his body, you're doing it wrong.... Lol. |
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asudan
Joined: 13 Apr 2014 Posts: 82
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Not asking for a buff, being able to back and circle with a spear should be allowed and makes sense. Sword skill should be removed, it does not fit and has no use for a thief when it comes to combat modules. These few changes would be great, but please don't revamp them. |
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Olyn Immortal
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3252 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Sword is an essential weapon skill for a thief. Allow me to explain with one word: parry. |
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divsky Emissary
Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1054 Location: Iowa City, IA
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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It's a lot easier to circle around someone in combat and stab them in the back with a 6 inch dagger than it is with a 6 foot spear. Daggers are a special weapon for thieves because they're small, easily concealed, and fit with the theme of a sneaky, rogue class.
The idea of thieves sneaking up to someone to stab them in the back with a spear, one handed or otherwise, makes a silly mental picture in my head. Stick to daggers. |
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ottif
Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 310
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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olyn in what situation would parry and no combat skills be more useful than dagger/shaft/segment. the damage you gain from sidestep seems to trump the damage you avoid with parry |
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Olyn Immortal
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3252 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not suggesting thieves parry with a sword, I'm saying the skill lets them parry swords better. It's a big deal. |
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Xenyar Emissary
Joined: 26 May 2010 Posts: 607
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Thieves need to know sword so they can better parry against it.... simple as that.
Divsky makes a good point about sneaking up on somebody with a 6ft spear and stabbing in the back...so make backstabbing with a spear only possible when the target has been blackjacked or sleeping. If opponent is awake, no spear backstabs. Just a thought... |
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ottif
Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 310
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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ah ok olyn i see your point |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10368 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Jokes aside, in the last month, I gave thief a disguise skill that lets them drop guard aggro, and i think even sneak into guilds (i'm not sure if the progs were actually touched up), and we also reduced the level requirement to use tripwire to 40, which is very nice for niche human 40 thief. So right now I'm not really convinced thief need another buff, instead I think the real problem is maybe the updates aren't being read. Someone said if things were on the MOTD they would be read, so I dunno. But I doubt they need serious attention. |
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divsky Emissary
Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1054 Location: Iowa City, IA
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:42 am Post subject: |
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This is news to me. I think you just need to make a thread on the forum every time you update something in the game. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10368 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:02 am Post subject: |
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There are updates that are worth a forum post but I don't believe all updates are. Mostly I just don't think its working for you guys to be trying to follow along with the MOTD/"finished issues" links. I'll make a script to post a thread with them to the forum each month. Then you'll be able to leave comments at the end of the month if we didn't make a thread, and if things were worth threads we can spin off some threads if we missed them.
Some updates aren't getting posted through any channels. There's nothing I can do about Imms being lazy about pushing new features through the issue system that exists to allow all this to work, other than sort of wag my finger and try to lead by example. I'm not perfect either so I'm not condemning anybody who hasn't done that all the time. Everybodys doing this in their free time, and things are still a little fiddly on the Imm side (no "quickpost" to generate a closed issue for instance). But I'm definitely commited to improving our communication about game updates and I think we made a lot of progress / also need some retrospect and make adjustments. Not just go back to creating forum threads. That caused TONS AND TONS of undocumented work going unnoticed |
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asudan
Joined: 13 Apr 2014 Posts: 82
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:19 am Post subject: |
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I'm not see any updates on thief skills whatsoever. |
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