Justice Update?

[lionSpyre]

They don’t have to be chaotic, but they can’t be lawful.

I also don’t think “not being a giant” is necessarily a weakness. FG warrior only looks so strong because Kryton has been playing one for so long. Plenty of FG warriors came and went before him with more or less a glass-cannon play style- insane damage output at the cost of very exploitable vulnerabilities. In most cases I’ve seen shamans slice through giant warriors like butter.

[Ozaru]

I don't remember the suggestions I made, but here are a couple of suggestions.

1. Eliminate special guards from assisting in combat with 1 wanted criminal. If you get 2+ wanted criminals then you can get a special guard. The guard only becomes active to loot the criminal.

2. This seldom happens but its incredibly boring to try and chase someone who is outside of your pk range. Remove level restrictions to hunt down a criminal, you can attack them and they can attack you. Maybe reserve death sentences for lvl 50 only.

3. Legions should be chaotic, if they should be the elites of PK then prove it no excuse if a justice doesn't have a special guard.

4. Legions, Warlords, Keepers, Knights if their target is hiding in seringale they should act regardless of getting a flag. Cabals are supposed to be for elite people act like it and prove that you are better.

5. Eliminate guild sitting for justice, you can still stay invis or hidden, but you can't be in a guild

6. Create something worth getting wanted for. You can rob the bank and get 500k, kill the juggernaut and get 500 medals, kill some mystic thing in seringale and get 500 relics

[Citeros]

lionspyre, Kryton has quite a well-balanced set for resisting spells and still outputting decent damage. Hopefully with what I read about them fixing broken math in the pvp coding regarding hitroll, as well as the set changes from the big patch, a rematch would be a little closer of a fight. Still not sure if I'd win, he is quite good.

I disagree with Ozaru's suggestion that Legion should be chaotic only, it'd almost even make sense if they could be lawful, it's a structured group with the intent of subduing resistance to their control of the realms. I also disagree with 2nd suggestion regarding removing pvp level restrictions while being wanted, and his sixth suggestion about robbing the bank or killing the juggernaut for some sort of gain.

I like guild sitting, because it beats being the chump who gets rolled by a thief at north square, but that's a personal preference, if it's something Kedaleam and Davairus agree to put in, I'd make due.

Special guards aren't overly helpful, majority of the time they're there to loot, using apprehend with them is very slow. So I actually wouldn't care if they implemented some sort of restriction on them in combat, except you'd still need them summoned to confiscate gear.

I have no strong opinion on the fourth point of his, I have nothing but respect for people willing to get wanted, but cabals are no longer just for elite people, and getting wanted basically guarantees you're going to lose some gear from the experience.

[Davairus]

You guys definitely wrote some interesting and cool suggestions. However I think they all missed the obvious huge elephant in the room, which is that town RP and PK are both in steep decline. So the Justice cabal's significance has similarly diminished. Whenever there are some arena duels or Mocker's Tavern poker going on, Justices have something interesting to be involved in. Otherwise, town's probably just sitting empty. Also, this isn't complaining, but let me just say this. I said the town RP is declined, but I didn't say that all the RP is. Right now I can see event in three days called "The Rest-Oration Launch Party". Since that obviously doesn't look likely to involve Seringale in whatever RP it is, I wouldn't feel inclined to log in a Justice, at all. Its much too late now, but I think in future, it would be nice to see stronger Seringale involvement.

Here is what I thought of to effectively revitalize Justice:

- making sure that more community events involve if not revolve around Seringale's hot-spots specifically
* e.g. instead of using travelers rest as a de facto default hot-spot for event RP, use mocker's tavern by default, so it isnt leaving Justices out in the cold who have to watch Seringale
* e.g. we could have a town hall where laws/fines could be actually revised during a monthly meeting, shop taxes could be set and collected over time to pay people for coming to these meetings. I think it would be cool if we had some sort of player governance.
* e.g. for religions, we have the temples, but we dont really have any RP in them. We could have interesting ceremonies at these temples. An example I can think of is religion initiation, which is currently allowed anywhere. That could require Seringale temples. Then some other RP stuff for religions in these temples. Funerals, weddings, whatever. More hotspots, more RP, more reason for a Justice to be needed around to keep order.

- making sure the storylines involve Justices players
* e.g. if you had a bunch of void magic that is causing a disruption to the fabric of reality, you might have a Justice looking into that to restore order. Thinking of the Loki show where they had the TVA which was much like a justice cabal.
* e.g. if you have a "trial of kalist windbreeze", you have a justice player in the role of the judge

- make more interactive RP things to do in Seringale
* e.g. Justices have a currency, it is called "sovereigns", it does not really do a whole lot for anyone else. It might be cool if other players could earn sovereigns when they are deputized or witness crimes and the like, then have them do something useful for you - like let you buy a cast of detect invis (not a potion - put the actual spell into effect on you).
* e.g. add more games. Poker, pontoon (blackjack), roulette, etc, are a nice start. I made a "wheel of misfortune" a bit ago. I think tag was always cool?
* e.g. we could have a talent show hotspot. A room in Mocker's Tavern where you can actually cheer, boo or yawn a herald performing on the stage. and it gets recorded like a Warlord record.

- clean up its turn-offs
* e.g. we could do away with some of the more ridiculous fines (like confiscating wild items) so that we are not cultivating resentment for Justices pointlessly, as that can make people want to avoid town
* e.g. remove some of the spam from town, especially north square, the citizens are repetitive and kinda annoying, and players might become inclined to just sit in the guildhall or avoid town completely
* e.g. I might be wrong on this one, but I think there might be lingering consortium resentment on Justice over the high profile Consortium deletes and that may be a psychological blocker for their current / long-term willingness to collaborate with Justices and lead ultimately to, again, avoiding town. we might need to get Solmundi out of Justice and just into a full blown brooding vampire edgelord character. Even better if he actually wants to go that route, just trying to think of ways to be practical here and remove road blocks.

And by the way, I'm not just writing all this because of Justice. Just think of the newbie who logs in for a passing glance, knows enough about muds to find the town and type "where" - but if it turns you guys are RP'ing in the holy grove it will seem like a dead MUD. That kinda RP used to be present in Seringale without the Justice cabal members even being logged in, importantly. It was a point of pride to have the courage to plant your ass on North Square come hell or high water. I think we have to recognize that the Justice cabal being boring is actually just a symptom of town RP decline and that's the thing we need to find some ways to revitalize, as well as look for ways to improve the game for newbies... focusing on addressing both those things will directly help the Justice cabal be less boring without having needed to actually change the justice cabal.

If I was just going to do the easiest thing to make Justice a bit more interesting for me, it would be sort of take ozaru's "no special guard" suggestion, but I think by incorporating the old Assassin cabal to join Justice (no cabal powers, no vault BS, doesnt has to be lawful, just gives a green light to gun for the criminals and ignore laws). I think that would be appealing for someone who just wants to be an executioner, without all the baggage. I could probably also just tweak Strife a slight tad for that, so we have a Warlord/Justice bridge coterie (assassins but with honor).

[Zooka]

@Dav re: assassin cabal incorporation is an interesting idea. I enjoy neutral characters mostly and wish to join a cabal for comradery and mentorship, but find the current choices lacking for neutrals. Where would you guys put a neutral bard, thief or druid?

[lionSpyre]

For those options, Zooka, you’re really only able to do Keepers. Tweak those ideas a bit though (maybe shadow instead of thief), and you can definitely roll a Justice. They’re looking fairly active right now, and it’s always fun to get in on an active cabal. The two players there also seem experienced, so guidance and mentorship is possible. This thread and some recent activity in game has shown me that while Justice may not be the most exciting cabal, there’s lots of fun to be head when there’s lots of players online with active tension.

Keeper can (and has been) its own discussion thread, so I don’t want to go too off topic here. But from my experience, Keeper is a very difficult playstyle where you lose gear very easily and don’t make a lot of friends along the way. It’s not particularly active at the moment, so I wouldn’t exactly recommend it for guidance and mentorship. However, it seems we were teased that changes are coming when we received a fun note a month or so ago indicating that Phostan has taken control of them, and Davairus wrote a well-received idea about how the whole RP and mission of Keeper could change in the future.if that happens, though, it’ll happen when it happens.

[Zooka]

Thanks lionSpyre, I appreciate the feedback.

[BlackWidow]

Kornhole> fire giants can definitely be neutral, I've seen Kryton carrying orderly equipment such as the Adjudicator's polearm...

Getting more to my point however: did anyone actually *try* asking the Immortals if they could play a lawful evil fire giant? I could see it being plausible (but not a minotaur). It used to be that custom races had to be requested on a case by case basis, and they came about because people had imaginations that went beyond the game parameters and the Immortals allows new ideas to come forth.