Dammit, quit pfutzing with illusionists! (doppel)

[Brains]

Now Doppelganger only works within PK range. It's worked on any visible character for years; now not.

Don't tell me that you think the Justices need things to be a little simpler for them, eh? ;)

-edit
Generally, the Old Standbys are the sore points for me (I have no idea how many others think this way). Some things that were never intended to act a certain way, such as Mana Shield and Assassinate, indeed should be fixed even if they have been broken for a long time.

However, when it comes to the functionality of non-bugged existing skills/spells, for Pete's sake, please leave things be. Or, at a <b>bare minimum</b>, please send a note to the rest of the playerbase informing them of the change so that we don't have to find out about it the hard way.

As for the 'why':
if this was done to accomodate Justice, please reconsider. Justices shouldn't be using scripts when it comes to something as critical as flagging anyway (in my opinion).
if this was done to prevent some sort of "out of range" problem, again, this is not specific to Doppelganger. There are at least six spells that I can name that have a MUCH stronger impact on out of range issues, and one skill: close.

Reasoning would be appreciated.
Signed,
Die-hard dumbass.

[theobserver]

Hopefully it doesnt work on imms anymore either. I hate it when some ill doppelgangers me to make it look like Torkalens a-goat-abusing-cigaring smoking-herald-bashing-layabout.

[Louis]

the spell was changed because its seriously screwed up. it would be fine if ills didnt try to be dumbasses with it, like doppeling imms and screwing around or doppeling newbies and getting them flagged.

[TheOneAndOnly]

No offense intended here but as for the Newbies getting flagged that is in no way the fault of the Illusionist, that is a clear inabililty of a Justice to properly maintain the Law. As for the Imm doppling I once was warned by the Immortals not to doppel Torkalen and attack people, but in the end Illusionist are creatures of Chaos and are meant to stir the waters a bit and I personally think it is the responsibilty of the players to push it as far as they can and when an Immortal thinks they have gone to far they will let you know. Until then keep pushing the limits, it is what keeps the gameplay interesting.

[Clifton]

Imms changed doppelganger pretty much cuz of me abusing it, and mortal whining (Justices). Lets look at how Doppelganger's affected Justices so far. Wurensi doppeled an outlaw, who was then later a criminal, and then was attacked in town (generally, an expulsion for said justice, but instead the fault was blamed on wurensi even though there are ways for the justice to tell who's who). And then the fact that the Justice grounds are protected areas. So... doppel a lowbie, go into Justice cabal, get lowbie wanted. There wouldn't be a problem if the Justice grounds weren't protected, (hence the justice war, which Justice is going to win)...

[Resatimm]

Yes blame Clifton who regularly doppleganged lowbies and walked into the justice cabal.

Justice guardian cant differentiate who it is, and as per justice guidelines, the justices must flag the invader.

Its called abuse of a loophole.

[Clifton]

I did it twice, Drexin and Methuse. Then pulled it on Nephit at a later date, which is still do-able. As for theoneandonly, it wasn't so much attacking doppeled as a newbie in town, because Rank 50 yells 'Die, n00b, you sorcerous dog!', is easily distinguishable by justices. It's the unseen stuff like abusing the auto-flag on justice cabal that is a pain. As Davairus said later, it's bypassing the pk ranges.

Edit -
Forgot to add, I did doppel lowbies regularly, but didn't get them wanted.

[TheOneAndOnly]

Thus the point, Illusionists are creatures of Chaos, to say that a master of Trickery is now unable to walk up and change his likeness to that of a peon is ludicrous. Seems the problem is with the Justice/all cabal Guardians and not so much with Doppelganger. The world shall bend to their will none the less. A shame really.

[Brains]

Might I suggest a less dramatic action than changing the way a fairly useful spell (a core one, I might add) works?

If someone is abusing the spell, take it away from that character. Hey. Seems a bit more straightforward, eh?
Note that the pk-range restriction STILL does not solve the seeminly original problem of Doppeling someone, then walking into the Justice cabal.
Note that some mobs (aka Aruncus) can see through Doppelganger. Quick fix for the Justice thing there.

In other words, this looks like a truly lazy "fix". Please reconsider the corrective action.

By the way, Clifton, I owe you a smack or two with a tire-iron.

[Clifton]

Actually, Brains.... Aruncus can't really see through doppelganger. In a bug which I've already pointed out to imms, if you are doppelgangered, give aruncus money, he will give you the gyvel potion, but you'll still ahve the small dusk of gyvel in your hand (unless they've fixed it). But, this allows you to get as many gyvel potions as you want until it decays. Also, mirror images screws you when you get gyvel potions as aruncus will give the potion to the first mirror. Also, I was abusing a loophole, not the spell... but the spell allows me to abuse the loophole so the spell must be fixed. I've always wondered what would happen if I doppeled a justice and wander into the cabal without them being there. Anyoen want to take bets?

[Resatimm]

Abusing a loophole is the same thing as abusing a bug.

Because:

loophole=bug

So you just admitted to bug abuse.

I rest my case.

Personally I would have taken the skill away from you, instead of changing it for everyone.

[Clifton]

Justice cabal conduct = must flag intruders = gameplay
Doppelganger = allows you to be seen as anyone in AR = class spell

Add justice cabal conduct and doppelganger together = abuse and bypassing of PK range.

But each of these on its own is not a bug.

[DropThat]

maybe instead of that it should say this person cannot be flagged because they are doppleganged or something. this would force justices to get off their lazy ass and go investigate by finding the law breaker/ cabal intruder near there, then you give wanted to 2. in the room and it gives the person the wanted flag.

heres how it could be better done. and I think a justice who's too lazy to do some detective work is lazy.
because the way the system works, how does it know how to revert you to who you were? it obviously keeps track of you, therefore if they found the criminal and gave them a flag in the room, it could follow the person even when they revert and not cause an inconvenience to the innocent.. btw this seems much more RP than screwing with the spell the way its been done. because Ills are chaos causers and evil Ills are supposed to cause havoc.
if an innocent person gets flagged, its just the fault of a lazy justice. their job is way too easy as it is. stop trying to make the game focus around that cabal.

step 1. change the spell back to the way it was.
step 2. make justices give the flag to the person in person by flagging in room with a target type flag.
step 3. if this is on that character it should then follow them through revert. not really a step just an explenation.
step 4. if a justice tries to flag someone who's currently been doppled, make it so they cant flag them. the trure criminal will be close to the scene of the crime right? so maybe the innocent one could be unflaggable while the other one is running amuck.

But really, you imps should be the ones coming up with a better system instead of this lazy fix, as that one person so aptly put it.

[Brains]

Once again, I am wrong about some things (i.e. Aruncus).

However, because it still sounds as if this is only a real problem with a small number of individuals, I would still request consideration be made to remove the spell from the troublemakers while a more robust solution is considered.

P.S.: Please ignore the idoitic "fixes" made by some others here, as many incorrect assumptions are being made by said idiots.

[Davairus]

I noticed that it was possible to kill or harm people out of range with this spell, and that is what the change fixed. Thanks for your valued feedback, brains.

[Brains]

Dav: hope it is useful, even if it remains the way it is now. I'll still be throwing out thoughts and opinions... It may have been a mistake for someone to fix Mana Shield, 'cause it encouraged me greatly after all the whining and yeling I did. ;)

So, here's an idea that may be do-able, depending on how the mob code is written:
Create a new variable that will be set to the Doppelganger caster's name and keep it attached (to the character, not sure how. Pfile?) as long as the character is under the spell.
Edit the Justice guardian mob and force its prog to look for this variable before yelling.
If the variable exists and is different from the character name, yell the variable's data instead of the visible name.

This would completely eliminate the Justice exploit, both in and out of PK range, assuming it is do-able. Eh? Eh?

[Clifton]

It also defeat the purpose for in range screwing... it's nearly impossible to keep a permanant wanted flag on you. So, by doppeling someone in range and using justice as henchmen, you essentially bypass the 30-50k assassin charge.