Two Tier Cabal System?

[Bones V2.0]

It seems with the Imm's pushing for cabals to regain their "elite" standing, a lot of cabal newbies (myself included) are finding their options limited.

So my idea is to have a second tier of cabals, where newbs and those who are not highly efficient PK'ing machines a place to go to learn the ropes. Just two or three, that have a bit of relaxed skill requirements.

All in all, I'd like to be as good as a lot of players, but due to the fact that the only caballed characters I've had are Heralds, I don't really have the real cabal experience to learn and draw from.

[Louis]

the best experience is to get to 35 and be aggressive.

[xanthas]

[Sebryn]

Heralds doesn't teach PK at all, so I'd have to disagree with that as an option for "improving one's AR skills."

If you want to learn how to RP a little better, maybe Heralds, but for PK skills it's just a matter of throwing caution to the wind and jumping in with both feet.

[Bones V2.0]

The reason I proposed this, is because of all the Cabals, assassins excluded, Legion would be my personal preference, with Warlords being second. However, both are looking for the "elite", and I may be able to squeeze by in Warlords, which will offer an excellent opportunity for me to learn. But I'm not going to even bother applying for Legion, cause with anything other than a Necro, I totally suck above 35, and they're not looking for Necros right now.

But what about the players who are not as good as me (few and far between, no doubt)? This may be an excellent wait to retain newbs, by giving them an organization to belong to and fight for.

In these examples, I'm assuming warfare between Normal Cabals and Second Tier Cabals will not be permitted. Also they should have a cabal that is not guarded by some overpowered perma-sanced newbie eating machine.

Upon reaching the level limit (say, 25) you are honorably uninducted, and free to apply for real cabals, if you wish.

Examples (The names lick balls, I know, feel free to comment.):
-----------------------------------------
The Protectors:
Levels 10-25 (Precursor for Knights, Justice, Possibly Warlords)

Assist other newbs (Blind leading the blind, I know), Advocating Fairness, Protecting the weak, blah blah blah

Cabal Skill: The more PK's the "target" has, the more damage the Protectors will inflict. Is still subject to the PK limit, which force members to level, and eventually leave the cabal.


The Order
Levels 10-25 (Precursor for Knights, more focused on PK)

Assist other goods, Help defend other goods.

Cabal Skill: Has added bonus to defenses at the expense of a small loss of offensive capability.


The Ancient
Levels 10-25 (A place for mages, no matter what cabal they wish to join (No Shamans, Healers or Druids)

Cabal Skill: Slight bonus for physical combat in exchange for spells being slightly less effective.

This would give all those newbie magic users a little help ranking, since before 20, they're worthless.


The Fallen
Levels 10-25 (Exact opposite of the Order, Legion and Assassin hopefuls)

Cabal Skill: Slight increase in offense, offset by small loss of defense

-----------------------------------------

So I know most of these are lame, but it would allow players to "train" their skills before joining the ranks of the big boys(or girls).

And before Burzuk comes in with his "This would dilute the current cabals, etc." I'm saying have these be limited by level, with that nice 10 level gap inbetween, before you are eligible to join one of the current cabals.

This would be like a prep-cabal, and you can possibly use it for a reference. (I consider applying for a cabal, like applying for a job.)

[GodOfWar]

This seems like it would be a good reintroduction to the clan system which was introduced and dissolved for whatever reason shortly after. Certain clans could be warring factions and stepping stones into the so called "elite" of the cabal system. Clans should be much easier to get into and could possibly have something to do with religion which would benefit and add to the religion system whenever it is supposedly coming back. Tattoos could be reinstated, lesser powers could be granted if any at all. I beleive it should just be a place for learning and growth, a little something extra to get the newbies to stay, and a good place for charachter and rp development.

[xanthas]

[Bones V2.0]

[Quiet Wanderer]

I like the idea bones. Of course, all you people such as xanthas that seem to like the 'tough love' angle of the game don't realize how many newbs I've seen driven away by such aspects as that. I'm in much the same boat as Bones, save that I haven't been playing since first age. Rather than gimping gate and recall spells/potions etc, I think the IMMs and IMPs need to address things such as these. Yes, harder to code and more involved, but if the playing field isn't 'leveled out' so to speak, AR won't get many more new people. I've had a few people drop by and just quite after reaching 35 and such, or lower, because there is nothing for them to do or fight/feel involved in. Thats the main reason newbs leave AR is because they don't feel involved. They see all the 'elites' and get discouraged because they A.) have no chance of standing up to OOC groups like the AIM webring etc. B.) They see players in cabals interacting and recieving respect but they are new and not good enough so they feel like they don't belong and quit. C.) There is no 'group' out there of Elites (guides try, Meriando and Galhea especially) that are dedicated to teaching the young. Perhaps the IMMs could like have 5 Mortas(number change?) that represent certain aspects of AR and are dedicated to teaching it. Have a custom title to reflect such (gay but for ex. : Master of The Arts, Master of Battle) Or you could take a certain mort member of each cabal.

Again, sorry for the length, but these are just some random ideas.

Honestly though... Who gimps a healers one way of being pimp at running? It's like throwing a cupcake or something. Just wrong

[xanthas]

[Louis]

hey bones, if you need a cabal to learn about AR, you're not approaching it correctly in my opinion. you need to first learn about AR, because once you join a cabal, you will be in deep shit without a solid foundation. if you don't know how to hold your own without a cabal, joining a cabal may be way more perilous because now you have automatic enemies. just look at the huge amount of average players that join cabals and get destroyed, then delete. the best way to develop your skills is to get to 35, practice out your character as you would a caballed 50, and pk like you would if you were already in. by the time you want a certain cabal, you should be a shoo-in.

the idea about clans coming back in formal form with clan_chat and all that is not going to happen any time soon. remember the Covenant? it turned into a trashy group of people who wanted to have a good reason to gangbang around.

in my past, i had (rough estimate as memory permits) 8 characters in the first age around level 30, when lvl 30 was the limit for cabals. each character was a cabal hopeful. then after that, i had a rank ~40 character, then a knight (knight was my first cabal). then i had a legion, another knight, then 4 uncaballed chars (three 50s and one 37), and finally 3 justices.. so my learning curve for my first cabal was 9 cabal hopefuls each with over 100 hours at least. others pick up AR and just get caballed on their first char too, but most of them have previous mudding experience. now getting into a cabal is much more lenient in my opinion.

i started using a mud client (wintin, not zmud) around my second knight. use a client.. (i used to swear Githnaru and his other chars would just walk in and let his scripts take over the pking, he was a scripting madman)

[Davairus]

[Phostan]

If Warlords is looking for the elite, I don't think that's right. It should take them right along with the dumb newbies. Newbies become elites by being helped along with the elites. I'm not sure how it is now, but back in the day if I was a Warlord and dueled another Warlord after a fight we went over together with who did what wrong and worked to improve it. Warlords was a camraderie, and even though there was strong competition, they help newbies learn. Now are you saying that the "elitist only" is a vibe you've been getting, or that "elitist only" has been flat out stated? And I personally think Legion is hardly for the elites, and by saying that, I don't mean, that I think it should have more then just elites, I just dont think it ever gets any elites.

[Louis]

warlords can duel you and go over the finer points of the fight with you but that doesn't mean you have to be a fellow warlord. thats why he's in the cabal and you aren't, because he knows something you don't.

if you don't think AR's Legions are elite, then there is a problem with its current members (they aren't doing their job). either that, or you are too confident in yourself and you need to pick fights with them to see who is better. when you think Legion, you should think "infamy."

[Phostan]

A newbie doesn't necessarily feel inclined to listen to a Warlord who just wiped the floor with them if they're just some schmo. but when they're a newbie Warlord, and another Warlord tells them, they might feel inclined to listen. Besides, the Warlord skills even the playing fields for them since they'd normally get owned anyday of the week and twice on sundays. Also, being part of a cabal gives newbies the urge to excel and do their best. And when I think Legion, I hardly think infamy. More like, "Do they have anything to make it worth killing them?" And there's no such thing as too confident.

[Louis]

if newbies aren't willing to take their turn at listening instead of blabbing off their mouths and thinking they are the greatest stuff on AR, they don't deserve to be given the privilege of a cabal under the premise that they will suddenly want to become better players. the incentive is already there to work towards joining the cabal.

for example if someone advanced a char to 50 and set skills to 100 (an extreme example) then he wouldn't want to work harder just because of his newfound buffness and good fortune.. or privilege of getting a buff char. he would want to go on a brawling pk spree.

i see only one scenario where newbies could benefit from being in a cabal without having thorough AR knowledge (many disadvantages including but not limited to: cabal raids, instantly hated or targetted, stringent guidelines and dire punishments for broken rules, so much power that breaking guidelines is highly desirable, everyone in the realms knowing every cabal skill and their effects.. to name a few). and that scenario is if every single char on AR was caballed.

ps.. do you see Ferdinos getting any better? .....
kidding. kinda.

[Valerion]

Here here, Louis.

To all the nubs (and a few vets):

1- Level to 50, even if you get spanked in the 30's.
2- Go out and explore ALL the areas, even if the mobs spank you. (Use discretion of course)
3- Learn how to RP your kills
4- Learn how to NOT suck
5- Make new, better character
6- DON'T suck
7- Apply for a cabal
8- Start sucking. (Haha, kidding. Kinda.)

[Phostan]

Louis, that's like saying since one black guy stole a tv, the next time someone steals a tv from me, I'll be able to say, "Just another black guy stealing a white guys tv". I've been in more cabals then a lot of people, and even ran a few, and I can say without doubt Warlords is a great place for a newbie. Just because they condie two months later isn't anything bad. Chances are they learned a lot for the next character. I mean, Cavan sucked, and when he condied, he was about average, and could track pretty good. Huge difference. It's like when you give a kid some menial task and make it sound important, they feel the need to make sure the task gets done to get some praise, giving a newbie a shot in Warlords makes them feel they have to show they earned it, as long as they don't have an arrogant attitude about it. Which is what the application and interview process is all about. Give newbies the benefit of the doubt and they will often suprise you in a positive way.

[Seryie]

Im talking from experiance here... don't apply to any pk type cabals unless your a GOOD player. I'm crap and I know it. I made it into legion and got my ass handed to me and I coulnd't do anything about it. In the end equipping twice a day wasn't worth it so I asked to be un-inducted.

Encouraging people to camp 35 is just plain stupid theres already enough trash hanging around that level as it is with people telling them to get good you trash people over and over! People need to learn the differant between getting a good kill, and trashing. Obviously it's a common mixup. or just people being cunts.

Rank to 50 without a cabal and fight there, that's the best place to learn imo.

[Bones V2.0]

All excellent points to an excellent discussion, but I've tried to encompass more than my own selfish desires.

As Quiet Wanderer and Dav said, it's not attracting newbs that is a problem, it's retaining them. Whether or not I become elite, I'd still like to see the realms with a hundred people running around instead of the usual thirty.

I know the IMPs rarely use any ideas that we have, but this, or a political system, or anything that would involve the newbs more than "Want to third?" may help get them involved and increase the likelyhood that they stay.

If some people learn the ropes real well and become elite among the way, that's just a fringe benefit.