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Burzuk
Implementor
Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 529
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 Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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It's easy to get people to fight, with or without a cabal. It's not easy making a cabal with a unique role and purpose to fill in the lands, to interact with others in a unique way. As much as you might dislike them, Assassins and Heralds are far more unique and purposeful than an aggressive Mystic cabal is.
Cabals aren't supposed to be simply "red team vs blue team". Not on AR, anyways. |
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Sebryn
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 1185
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| And homosexual is not the right word...Just for sebryn is homo the right terminology. |
It's not "homo" you jerks... it's "fool". Look up the helpfile 'help Sebryn'. Fool, not homo. Fool.
| Quote: |
| Assassins and Heralds are far more unique and purposeful than an aggressive Mystic cabal is. |
At least Burzuk has a fair and honest view of the Heralds... surprising as that may be. And even though this thread isn't about the Heralds, I just want to say that yes, we do write a bunch of stuff that's never seen by the rest of you, but we're working on that.
As for the Mystics... I'd have to agree with the IMMs/IMPs on this one (save your 'brown-noser' comments, it's the truth). Every legitimate argument I've heard for why the Mystics should be brought back has involved some scheme to bring about a power-hungry group of evil bastards to take over Thera. And that differs from Legion's directives how?
It's nice to keep prodding the "Mystics corpse" every once in awhile, but until somebody comes up with a better argument than "I think it'd be cool because the Mystics would kick a bunch of ass," this issue is probably not going to get a second look.
And by probably I mean more than likely never. |
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roosaelevant
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Legion is dead, there is no legion, just a few scattered fells/abyssals playing from now and then. And why would anything think that the only way to rp the return of the mystics would be so they could be bloodthirsty.
The purpose of mystics is not that. |
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theobserver
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I view heralds as supporting pk oriented cabals by helping to create stories or rp behind the fighting. Other cabals are free to utilise a herald as a ‘go between’ in time of war. If they aren’t any decent cabal conflict happening, then Heralds cant do much in that area. So instead we are working towards helping new players. Scrapping Heralds as some players have advocated is not going to turn pacifist players into pkers.
As for mystics, another consideration is that is better to have 5 active pk cabals than 6 sparsely full cabals. Unless our player base dramatically grows, (re)introducing another aggressive cabal will result in fewer members in other cabals. People who tend to join Heralds on the other hand are not pkers so Heralds do not compete with the likes of Legion or Knight. |
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Clifton
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 530
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Roosaelevant, legion ain't dead. Mystics, if they are turned into bloodthirsty battlemages of (more than likely not) darkness, then they're just Legionnaires -shadow +600mana, which is ... erh... yeah. What's the point?
As for Heralds, there's a helluva lot of shit that can be done with em. True, nothing's being done w/ em, so pretty much it's been hoarding, sitting, writing and whatnot, but some of the shit that comes out of there is pwesome to read, and a crack up too. I personally view heralds as a cabal where noobies/people go when they want to get more out of ar than to satisfy a bout of bloodlust, provide some insights to ar to help (experienced), or not get trashed by the level-3 "elites" (see: other forum) because they haven't developed the subtleties of pking yet, but don't want to just waste their time creating and starting worthless bullshit chars. With enough of a mix, noobies will learn and experienced players won't be bored shitless.
Enough bitching. |
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sweet_canadian_mullet
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 418
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| You only get flamed if you know better and are still an idiot like matrix.(not saying you are an idiot here but everyone throws somethin dumb out there) But yeah...If your neutral your neutral. Dwarfs rank with legionairs and knights. Its the same deal. No biggie with rp. And of course he would be able to deny. But I think this is a who has more money system and that could turn into another one way thing. I think it should be rp based by they are evenning out the realms and such. Blah blah blah. |
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Amdorin
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 829
Location: No matter how much a failure, no life is worthless. You can always serve as a bad example.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| You only get flamed if you know better and are still an idiot like matrix.(not saying you are an idiot here but everyone throws somethin dumb out there) But yeah...If your neutral your neutral. Dwarfs rank with legionairs and knights. Its the same deal. No biggie with rp. And of course he would be able to deny. But I think this is a who has more money system and that could turn into another one way thing. I think it should be rp based by they are evenning out the realms and such. Blah blah blah. |
Your reply seems to be more aligned with the comments in the Foyer about the Neutrality cabal. Did you lose your position? (The Battlefield instead of the Foyer?) I mean if you weren't then ok, but it really reads as if you were replying to my comment in the Foyer. |
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Sebryn
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 1185
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I think Dav or someone moved the part about the Neutrality cabal to its own thread. |
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Crusader_Rabbit
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:37 am Post subject: |
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 ...The main purpose of Knights is to confront evil and any one willing to do so should be a Knight and the reasons given for excluding are pretty lame, how ever if you are going to exclude those classes then perhaps Healers should be removed also as their prime objective is saving lives not taking them so using the lesson from the other classes no Healers in Knight.  |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Then supply some better reasons. They're staying excluded. Good luck pleasing everyone.
Healers prime objective is not just saving lives, if it was they would not have dispel undead hurting evils, and divine ret, would they now. One possible aspect a healer can take, is to protect the towns by banishing evils (and other stuff that brings harm from innocents) from them, which is ok for Knights and Justices, albeit a bit loosely possibly. As mentioned in the foyer of the mind sticky, we're accepting healer ideas, so you can go there and write your piece on what you think a healer should be. |
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Crusader_Rabbit
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| ..If I can find my old notes Orchrist/Sedgwick had a real good one on what Healers should be, they are ment to respect the living thus the major spells against Undeads and other spells are defensive in nature as well |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Just watch yourself. Who was it who said "the greatest thing about men is they don't think", or something. Well, I'll tell you. Hitler. The moral is you can explain away any piece of BS that you like, and people will accept it without questioning it much. |
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Sebryn
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 1185
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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For healers, think of it this way:
They wish to alleviate suffering and pain, as their skills are testament to.
To take it one step further, perhaps certain healers wish to eliminate the source of said suffering and pain, i.e. - evil... Legion, etc.
It's not that healers within the Knights are bloodthirsty savages, you could just view it as their way of stopping future pain and suffering by taking out the cause. No cause = no effect. In this case, a dead Legionnaire = less pain later on.
(This isn't the only rationalization for the existence of healers within the Knights... I'm not even saying it's the correct one... just a view to consider.) |
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sweet_canadian_mullet
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 418
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Seby you shouldnt even argue this. The crusader dumb fuck is just retarded and has useless arguements. I will enlighten anyone that asks. So crusader...please ask why this is a useless arguement. |
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Crusader_Rabbit
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| sweet_canadian_mullet wrote: |
| Seby you shouldnt even argue this. The crusader dumb fuck is just retarded and has useless arguements. I will enlighten anyone that asks. So crusader...please ask why this is a useless arguement. |
..I have been gone from AR for a year or so and have been out doing other Muds. Mullet are you the one in the chat room called Chuckie???
Anyways back in the old days when you were just a gleam in your Daddies eyes Mullet we had Clerics here, but were deemed to be over
powerfull so they had the plug pulled and the few that were here were allowed to hang on althought basically all they did was to guild set and auction rares...Clerics = offensive and Healers = defensive. Sorry Dav but Divive Retribution is a defensive spell and not offensive, but the whole point I was trying to make was that it is lame to exclude anyone who is a Lightwalker from Knights and that you can make all kinds of petty excuses for the other class to be excluded also. Was this an Imm choice, or one made by the Knight leader? All you end up with are cookie cutter Knights Paladin, Healer and a few Warriors. Ills, thieves, ninjas and monks would expand your membership, plus give some different RP angles as I said in earlier post the only requirement that there should be is that you are a Lightwalker and wish to battle the Evil forces of the lands. |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| Divine ret is defensive? Right. Good luck defending yourself vers a fire giant warrior with that. |
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Burzuk
Implementor
Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 529
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| but the whole point I was trying to make was that it is lame to exclude anyone who is a Lightwalker from Knights and that you can make all kinds of petty excuses for the other class to be excluded also. Was this an Imm choice, or one made by the Knight leader? All you end up with are cookie cutter Knights Paladin, Healer and a few Warriors. Ills, thieves, ninjas and monks would expand your membership, plus give some different RP angles as I said in earlier post the only requirement that there should be is that you are a Lightwalker and wish to battle the Evil forces of the lands. |
The only reason you can give for expanding Knight membership to all good-aligns is to increase diversity? In that case, we might as well forgo the good-align restriction and make it open to anyone willing to fight evil, for the sake of "diversity" and "interesting RP angle." It makes just as much sense.
The restrictions in Knight membership exists for the same reason as Warlords: the goals of Knights are important, but equally so (if not more so) are the means by which they get there. For Knights, the ends do not justify the means. Being a "sneaky" type isn't Knightly (for example, doppleganger, steal, assassinate, etc). Monks are being more restricted from cabals in general (witness their exclusion from Justice) to emphasize the isolated and ascetic nature of the class, in contrast to how worldly and political the other classes are. And if you've been paying attention to the new virtue system for Knights, you can see where the excluded classes would have problems adhering to them.
You make a pretty strong statement about easing Knight restrictions when you broadly declared "the only reason there should be". Unfortunately, I can give plenty of reasons why there shouldn't be such lenient restrictions, and the diversity justification you give doesn't explain why it makes sense to restrict Knights to good-aligns (aside from enforcing the Red Team vs Blue Team mentality of course) when lifting that restriction would actually maximize diversity. Try again. |
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sweet_canadian_mullet
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 418
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Rabbit...I think I miss understood your first arguement...or you said it very very bad. I thought you were argueing that healers should be removed...But now that you have cleared things up I agree with you. You can remove any class with some b-s excuse...But I agree with all of the not so b-s excuses that the gods have put forth. The cabals are based on how many people they have. Not what kind they can have. Palys alone are the strongest class you can get against evils. So right there monks should be dropped. shrug. Im just kinda talkin now I guess. |
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Crusader_Rabbit
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Davairus wrote: |
| Divine ret is defensive? Right. Good luck defending yourself vers a fire giant warrior with that. |
I call a spell you cast on your self defensive, I might be wrong but that is the way I see it. Spells you cast on someone else are offensive. Also if one reads help Healer in game that that pretty much follows with the point I was trying to make about Healers being non-agressive, Elindel(sp?) was perhaps one of the best healers ever in the game, made it to 50 with out killing a single mob, that had to be one of the top rp's ever in game. |
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sweet_canadian_mullet
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 418
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ??? Explain. How the hell would he do that? You mean made it to fifty without killing any players? |
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