View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Mummy
Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 698 Location: Under Resatimm's Ass
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:34 am Post subject: Dark Knights |
|
|
Asking for ideas for killing DKs with Ninja. Nerve doesn't work because their armor is too thick, caltraps doesn't either because they are mounted, they have unlimited moves, and Drow DK's bash is now as effective as anyones due to mount and Ilythir's branding is enhancing Drow defenses while forcing me to get butchered or drop counterbalance and rely on parry and dodge alone. Throw in a spear and I'm getting a little pwnt over here.
All tips appreciated. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Esivole Immortal
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 958 Location: Somewhere beyond the present.
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As I have played a number of ninjas now, I will attempt to throw in some thoughts. Blindness dust is still really effective. Sidestep is still really effective if you can get the weapon situation right and you aren't already getting out damaged. You have to save acupuncture for the absolutely best moment. Lead them on to make unholy strength wear off. Or just completely avoid and attempt assassinates. I want to make it clear that this fight is strictly up hill with a bag of bricks. Resetting often to survive is often the best that can happen. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dogran Immortal
Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 1797
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think the defenses of a dk were buffed just a little too much. They were hobble bait before, all you had to do was hobble them and they died basically. Now, hobble doesn't work, sideswipe doesn't work. Barrage doesn't work. The only thing that DOES work is bash and who bashes someone who is already outdamaging you? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eloret Immortal
Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 403 Location: Rhode Island
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Try grappling them, perhaps you will knock them off their high horse! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Hrimoyan Immortal
Joined: 14 Apr 2010 Posts: 241 Location: Within the Land
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you aren't ubergeared (and I mean winter/spiked/light steel geared) and assassination fails, flee flee flee (because any DK worth his salt will typically outgear you outside of that extremity). And that's pretty much it, especially with Jotun bash running around now. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Posts: 379
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I feel like if the dk defenses were so good, human dark knights would be creaming everyone. No vulns, better weight capacity, decent parry and shield block, etc. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dogran Immortal
Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 1797
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The problem for the most part is the people making DKs. Anyone with any measure of skill making a dk right now is going to do really well. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Xenyar Emissary
Joined: 26 May 2010 Posts: 601
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have played a DK somewhat recently, I owned with that DK.. Enjoyed steam rolling for a while with em...the only person I got owned by, was a DK.
Thats really the only I had issues with. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Posts: 379
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
have a link to your stats?
Lurayel is negative. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
DKs are pretty underpowered at the moment. If you're having trouble killing Rheloth, it's the player not the game. Strategies against the class aren't going to help you much against someone who's beating you despite the class, not because of it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Posts: 379
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nycticora wrote: |
DKs are pretty underpowered at the moment. If you're having trouble killing Rheloth, it's the player not the game. Strategies against the class aren't going to help you much against someone who's beating you despite the class, not because of it. |
Pretty much, although I feel there's more at work than a simple "X class is bad". It may be another reason Jotun exists. They're a high strength, high wis, high con race. That translates into shield block and parry, the two defenses paladins and dk have. That's actually quite good. By the same token, are human/elf/drow warriors competitive? Are elf/drow spellcasters competitive? In the rights hands yes, but again, it becomes of case of "beating someone despite the class". Exceptions always prove the rule. We only see "power combos" in high positions; human shaman, dwarf zerk, fire whatevers, high strength warriors, justice whatevers, etc.
When we see high dex/low strength races excel, it's usually only the most powerful, drow ninjas, or other extremely high dex based play in a rogue format, despite the pitfalls of hobble.
I wish we had a graveyard for years prior to the combat module changes, like 2001-2003. I'd like to see the distribution of classes and races in pk stats for that. It has the general feel that the modules really beefed up strength play, even though there's more problems with dirts, etc. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dogran Immortal
Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 1797
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I like how you think dwarf zerk is a power combo... lol |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
|
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah. Dwarf zerkers suck.
But, if you can stick around for a bit and kill of that stallion you can open things up. It's a hella long cooldown for that stallion so kill the first one. Heal up, if they get the second, kill it and heal. Then go.
Flee murder always a good time.
And dirt kick for sure. Gain that combat superiority and dirt the shit out of them.
Take advantage of vulns. Drow with mithril/silver. Jotun with pierce. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Posts: 379
|
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
25 con for massive regens for rage and berserk. That's not chicken feed. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
|
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Fireballe2 wrote: |
25 con for massive regens for rage and berserk. That's not chicken feed. |
Dude. Kalist rolled a dwarf zerker and said they blew. Nadrin just condeathed a dwarf zerker and said the blew. Clearly they look good on paper. But that doesn't always pan out. If you doubt it, roll one up and pwn everyone, then I'll believe you. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rothak
Joined: 03 Oct 2011 Posts: 257 Location: Japan
|
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nycticora wrote: |
DKs are pretty underpowered at the moment. If you're having trouble killing Rheloth, it's the player not the game. Strategies against the class aren't going to help you much against someone who's beating you despite the class, not because of it. |
Hey, someone thinks I'm pretty decent! Woot woot!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Hrimoyan Immortal
Joined: 14 Apr 2010 Posts: 241 Location: Within the Land
|
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dwarf zerks are only good on paper. No large size + no one-handing overbear weapons = it's not going to do well as a zerk. Size and dex affect success of bodyslam landing, but we know size diff affects lag time. Zerkers are a big race/max damage output class. Dwarf zerk too small yo.
As for having giant classes in DK ..I think that greatly changes the underpowered status as well as the mount-just-for-being-the-class stallions combat. With the changes to reduced movement gains from trains and combat while flying pretty much compromised for melee classes, this seems to equalize a crucial component of the playing field, something DKs were underpowered in. Rogue movement is more restricted, but they can hide. Fighter types have more restricted movement, but can dish out the pain. Spellcasters can fly/use flight for great movement without melee problems (they aren't melee). Hybrids (DK/Pally) now both have in-class enhanced movement spells with "short term" enhanced power spells.
I'm not really understanding what DKs are underpowered in now. They already dish out the damage, have movement/mounted combat now, have giant option. Vamps already steamroll and I haven't seen much struggle from competent players. Not to mention DKs have scrolls |
|
Back to top |
|
|
beia
Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 920 Location: Texas
|
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Vampires are dumb OP. The Daylight shit does not even do anything to them if they have good eq it does not even affect them. It is like they have perm-Unholy Strength, tons of different ways to heal themselves. Maybe idk what I am talking about but this shit needs to be looked at. They really never have to use a Coffin, so Pallys stake is worthless. Someone should roll a human warrior named Blade and kill all the vampires.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Posts: 379
|
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hrimoyan wrote: |
Dwarf zerks are only good on paper. No large size + no one-handing overbear weapons = it's not going to do well as a zerk. Size and dex affect success of bodyslam landing, but we know size diff affects lag time. Zerkers are a big race/max damage output class. Dwarf zerk too small yo.
As for having giant classes in DK ..I think that greatly changes the underpowered status as well as the mount-just-for-being-the-class stallions combat. With the changes to reduced movement gains from trains and combat while flying pretty much compromised for melee classes, this seems to equalize a crucial component of the playing field, something DKs were underpowered in. Rogue movement is more restricted, but they can hide. Fighter types have more restricted movement, but can dish out the pain. Spellcasters can fly/use flight for great movement without melee problems (they aren't melee). Hybrids (DK/Pally) now both have in-class enhanced movement spells with "short term" enhanced power spells.
I'm not really understanding what DKs are underpowered in now. They already dish out the damage, have movement/mounted combat now, have giant option. Vamps already steamroll and I haven't seen much struggle from competent players. Not to mention DKs have scrolls |
maybe the problem is that in general, physical classes require giants to be competent. prior to Jotun, pals and dks were human or elf. A mount doesn't make up for losing dodge. Even if dodge were put back in, it would still suffer the same problems as non-giant or dex based warriors. You're right that DKs aren't underpowered. Human warriors are underpowered, elf and drow warriors are underpowered, and at least elf and drow dks are underpowered.
The problem might be more general than specific to the class. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10352 Location: 0x0000
|
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Daylight does a whole lot more than "nothing" to vampires. You wouldn't last a week. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|