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Shad0w
Joined: 17 Jan 2012 Posts: 12
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: I know this has been said before. |
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I just wanted to re-iterate the fact that there's only 1 Keeper, and no applicants. No one truly wants to play a Keeper, if you don't want to bring back Warlords, at least make something better. Just my opinion. |
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Esivole Immortal
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 958 Location: Somewhere beyond the present.
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Keepers have their place. I think that it is more of a player base issue as opposed to cabal type issue. More players = more keeper targets presumably. More people to fight would mean more people might want to roll a keeper, myself included. Keepers need something to do at 50, since you can't rare hunt. Gold farming is just stupid after a while and their gambling sucks (last I saw.) that being said, have you played a keeper? if not, try it. I learned the rp aspect of it and now appreciate at least that part of the cabal. |
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Stiehl26
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 695
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: I know this has been said before. |
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Shad0w wrote: |
I just wanted to re-iterate the fact that there's only 1 Keeper, and no applicants. No one truly wants to play a Keeper, if you don't want to bring back Warlords, at least make something better. Just my opinion. |
"Making something better" is most likely not going to happen, as there is barely anyone to "make something better" for. If people don't want to play a keeper, and it's been said that warlords won't be back so many times its laughable to keep bringing it up, then just roleplay it's a keeperless/warlordless world, which it pretty much is. |
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Olyn Immortal
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3250 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Warlords have been back for a while now. 'help strife' Unless you meant you just wanted to have overpowered forms, then no. |
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Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Olyn wrote: |
Warlords have been back for a while now. 'help strife' Unless you meant you just wanted to have overpowered forms, then no. |
I'm just after the [WARLORD] flag. |
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Fireballer
Joined: 20 Jan 2010 Posts: 330
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: I know this has been said before. |
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Shad0w wrote: |
I just wanted to re-iterate the fact that there's only 1 Keeper, and no applicants. No one truly wants to play a Keeper, if you don't want to bring back Warlords, at least make something better. Just my opinion. |
you're not entitled to be given "something better". They've done a remarkable job on a number of things with the people they have to do it all. I can understand forwarding a suggestion, but your tone will make people oppose it and your idea is redundant since, as olyn pointed out, strife exists.
I don't think he wants forms because joining on 2012 would never have played with them.
Keepers are fun, actually. They're a sort of elite pker cabal, because you're prevented from wearing rares, your enemies will be everyone, just not at different times, and you're also supposed to kill the most overgeared people. How would you like to have been told, as cabal policy, to go kill Ygin? Suicide right? That's what keeper is for, people who are strong enough pk wise to do something like that. It's an anti-hoard/decked gear police force. No one is rolling it because it's hard to play well. |
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Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: I know this has been said before. |
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Fireballer wrote: |
No one is rolling it because it's hard to play well. |
Tell that to Jaux? |
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Fireballer
Joined: 20 Jan 2010 Posts: 330
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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I meant the neutral-neutral bit. people like their bloodthirst and revenge. |
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Dispater
Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Posts: 780 Location: Far side of the internet!
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing to do as a Keeper really, not too many targets and no gear hunting, basically you don't have ANYTHING to do but wait for the #1-#2 top rated people to pop by. |
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Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Dispater wrote: |
Nothing to do as a Keeper really, not too many targets and no gear hunting, basically you don't have ANYTHING to do but wait for the #1-#2 top rated people to pop by. |
Especially when balance reigns over Thera and you don't have any cabals to go fighting either. |
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Ceridwel Immortal
Joined: 01 Feb 2008 Posts: 3387 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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I've often wondered lately (for months now) how Thera can be in Balance with just one Keeper. How is that bit calculated? |
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Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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iolo wrote: |
I've often wondered lately (for months now) how Thera can be in Balance with just one Keeper. How is that bit calculated? |
I'm guessing it has to do with average rating of the cabal members. Since Legion has Taudon and Vendert to drag down the rating and no one else has anyone rated higher than Jaux, that's why.
I think the formula should involve a number of different factors.
1) Average rating of members in the cabal
2) Total members in the cabal
3) Total pinnacles in the cabal
4) Total hours of the cabal (could be updated on a weekly, bi-weekly or monthly basis)
Also, if any cabal captures a rival's item, their own power surges pretty remarkably. If Knights and Legion actually gave a shit and started capturing each others' cabal items, Keepers might have more to do. Knights and Legions should totes be perma-anathema and perma-contract (not imposed by an exterior force, but rather self-imposed by capturing items all the time). |
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Ceridwel Guest
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Its almost impossible to capture an opposing cabal's item solo now since the changes were made to the cabal guardians. We'd see more of it if those changes were rolled back, but I'm sure they're in there for a reason. |
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Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Ceridwel wrote: |
Its almost impossible to capture an opposing cabal's item solo now since the changes were made to the cabal guardians. We'd see more of it if those changes were rolled back, but I'm sure they're in there for a reason. |
It's definitely not impossible for most classes, it just takes time. I soloed the Knight's item a couple times on my illithid and that's with charmies doing shit damage and the Knight altar guard doing slashing attacks.
My only beef with the altar guardians is their hitroll and their swinging. I feel like they should be a little easier to defend against and that they shouldn't swing in order to encourage people to invade even when a member of the opposing cabal is around. |
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Olyn Immortal
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3250 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:55 am Post subject: |
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Ill look into the item capture sometime soon. That needs to be a viable option for solo cabal members. Without looking, I'd guess the pendulum defaults to Keepers when no cabal is deserving of the tag. |
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Fireballer
Joined: 20 Jan 2010 Posts: 330
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:18 am Post subject: |
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http://abandonedrealms.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3752&highlight=curse+cabal
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his change is designed to reduce the effectiveness of huge hit/dam caballed character gankers. Cabal guardians are now armed with spells to use against their attackers.
- if you have vulnerable save maledictive, it'll detect it and curse you
- otherwise, if you have vulnerable save mental, it'll detect it and dispel
- otherwise, if you have vulnerable save afflictive, it'll detect it and lightning bolt
- otherwise, it'll just kick
- and.... it'll do this against EVERYONE it finds fighting it ....
..Basically, in any situation where you raid a cabal with no saves (on your own initiative, or otherwise), you're inviting a beating from dirt kick, or big damage spell, something like that. The spells the guardian uses don't really become lethal until coupled with real players to cement the victory, of course. I could easily put hobble/dirt on these mobs, but I'd rather allow players to do something smart on their own. .. |
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Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:45 am Post subject: |
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Only the first guardian casts the spells and only the keeper one kicks dirt. It's not that bad. |
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Fireballer
Joined: 20 Jan 2010 Posts: 330
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:14 am Post subject: |
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I think what he meant is that, by inviting a dispel, you're opening yourself to another player's dirt kick, at which point the guardian and a player will hose you. |
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Hrimoyan Immortal
Joined: 14 Apr 2010 Posts: 241 Location: Within the Land
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Keeper is still the least understood cabal, mostly because it's the newest and it's priorities have shifted slightly.
Keeper goes after people based on their lethality, their rating. This is the primary indicator to who gets hunted, as opposed to just being rared out as it once was. This shift has fixed some of the issues such as having to chase after really really old characters who have simply acquired a bunch of unique items, ex. Noliperous. This also leads to a Keeper not having much to do on a regulary basis because their target focus has been narrowed. It's the best cabal for casual play and wanting to log on and fight the strongest people in game right away though.
For those reasons and the scenarios that you can find yourself in, Keeper isn't noob friendly by any means, and the denouncement of rare eq filters out the majority of the stage 2-3 playerbase. One of the pros to Keeper is that you don't have to be on all the time to keep wares, in that regard things are a little more lax, but for that to be tolerable you must be an efficient fighter.
The other thing about Thera being in balance is that typically there's only one to three dominant characters in a generation at a time, so there isn't a need for a full fortress of Keepers, though the current number, 1, is still low. We're pretty much a group of assassins dedicated to preserving the balance against elongated periods of other-cabal dominance. |
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