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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10353 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:55 am Post subject: item weights |
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just relaying this from a note someone sent in game
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It seems to me that weapon weight restrictions are out of place. There
are no such restrictions for armor, as far as I know -- a halfling could put
on the huge iron breastplate. Strength has effects on hitroll, damroll,
various combat skills, and carry weight. We have oversized weapons as a way
of giving giants a special set of weapons to use, but as it stands now we
also have weight limit as a function of strength. I brought up my issues
with the weight restriction of the Solace shield as quasits were not able to
use it, and that was changed. Now, I've noticed that the mace of disruption
is only useable by str 20 (21) and up, and I'm not sure why. Powerful and
magical items should not be weight-restricted, especially ones made of
'chaos'. I am happy to discuss this with anyone, if there is interest.
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Dogran Immortal
Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 1798
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:39 am Post subject: |
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There is a whole set of weapons and shields that are the rate/best in slot for that category ie, best one handed sword, axe, mace, etc. It is always annoying to know that one pound makes the weapon unwieldy, something that big should just be oversized. As a 20 str human I cannot use mace of disruption, but I can use dead human with two hands? |
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xanthas
Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 474 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:00 am Post subject: |
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small dead human toddler. can whip one of those around no problem |
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Kato
Joined: 03 Nov 2013 Posts: 219
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Strength matters a ton, weapon restriction beyond oversized doesn't make sense to me. |
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m1coftw
Joined: 05 May 2015 Posts: 265
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Remove hard-coded strength restriction, but give a penalty using too heavy weapons while being too weak. E.g. you lose some damage depending on how much strength you are missing to wield the weapon properly.
When a halfling wears a huge iron breastplate, he won't have much strength to wear much else though, so that's balanced. |
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Dogran Immortal
Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 1798
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:49 am Post subject: |
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I agree, the weight themselves balance the items. With the introduction of not being able to recall while being overburdened, it just doesn't make sense. there shouldn't be a penalty to using one handed weapons their weight is penalty enough. |
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Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:02 am Post subject: |
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While we're at it, a full quiver of arrows is stupid heavy. And a warrior has no weapon skills that they can use to deplete the arrows down to 1 to minimize weight.
I did have a time where some friendly Rangers helped my elf warrior tote around (1) arrow of like three different types and that was bomb diggity. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10353 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:04 am Post subject: |
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It wouldn't actually be cool to deal with diff. size armors. I understand the sentiment but think of the next time you roll a minotaur and you can't wear the goblin equipment because it only fits gnomes. Its a totally crappy player experience even though it would be realistic. Doing it makes the game less fun. You could envision this stuff just magically expands and shrinks to fit or something equally plausible.
As for stregth affecting weapons wielded, I've always liked it. Maybe it would have been better to have five sizes of weapons and let the size differential determine the rules for wearing that weapon as a two hander. The oversized stuff is size-based, built on top of old legacy code that was strength-based... I think doing it was a small step in the right direction. But human and elf wearing different stuff seems totally fine. Its fine that a race gets the shaft on something as long as there's something else to make up for it. |
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Kato
Joined: 03 Nov 2013 Posts: 219
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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I think the weight restriction on weapons makes the game less fun - on top of a halfling having 8/8 less hit/dam than a giant, he also has 1/3 the weapon selection.
The best rare/unique weapons were something that always drew me in as a noob, and it was really exciting to find one and get to use it. Nobody should have to let a best-in-class weapon go because they chose a lower strength race. |
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Olyn Immortal
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3250 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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We've talked about making another weapon size that is too small for giants to use and too small for medium to double grip. I think, if anything, we should explore that option. I'm happy with weight being a factor in weapon selection. |
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Ceridwel Immortal
Joined: 01 Feb 2008 Posts: 3387 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Great point about the warrior arrows. |
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Dogran Immortal
Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 1798
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I would be all for Olyn's idea if they were all new weapons, and did not further lessen the weapons that people can use? I mean we already made some things harder to get for the chaotic/ orderly business. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10353 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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I just can't see bilbo wearing the dead human wrapped in chains. I could see arnold schwarzenegger's conan doing. There is a coded way to shrink weapons already, I believe. pixie uses that to wield this oversized stuff. They can also trade the weapons they shrink with other guys so.. |
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Kato
Joined: 03 Nov 2013 Posts: 219
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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The dead human is oversized, Dav -- that restriction is a good one.
Pixie shrink lets other small-sized use any non-oversized weapon in one hand, I think. However, with a small playerbase, this doesn't really work. I'm not even sure if there are any pixies at 50 at all. |
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Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Weapon weights might need to be audited due to sloppy builders but the system itself is solid and should stay. Removing or reworking it would be a waste of time. It's content that exists already, ripping it out and reworking it would just be replacing it with new (unfamiliar) content that could piss off existing players. There must be a better use of effort somewhere. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10353 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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kato that is a necessary kind of playerbase issue, it gives the multiplayer aspect of the game some actual point, and is definitely enriching |
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Kato
Joined: 03 Nov 2013 Posts: 219
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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It's still restrictive. It means that a quasit could use the mace of disruption if he befriends a pixie, but there's no possible way for a drow to use it. |
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Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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It's restrictive on purpose. If some races didn't have drawbacks like that the majority of players would be elves. Same reason we don't have drow rangers. |
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Kato
Joined: 03 Nov 2013 Posts: 219
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:36 am Post subject: |
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I agree that this was a design feature, but I don't agree that it's a positive thing right now. Strength is objectively a much better stat than dex -- responsible for both hit/dam for almost every weapon (dex used to be hitroll, but now strength is both)
tied to carry weight which now matter a lot more than it used to
hobble means that dex races can be rendered nearly defenseless
I don't have a ton of experience with warrior classes, but I'd never pick something like an elf because of their stats, but despite them if I really wanted to include that race in RP. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10353 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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You can check with Olyn but I think that's actually been completely bugged since like all time. Dex has always been giving hitroll (invisibily), while strength hasnt been giving *any* hitroll since like 2005. The only thing that works correctly is the score output and a few skills |
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