Revisiting Races and Meandering Thoughts

[Stiehl26]

I have noticed that several races appear to be considered by the general populace as "tough challenges". The gnome and illithid appear to stand out to me. What seems strange to me is that these two races do not appear to have racial legacies, whereas a duergar thief, for example, has the ability to hobble with his clobber...which seems a bit overpowered since duergars are already a very favorable race to pretty much everyone. I propose a second look at the races and where exactly they fit in the balance. Some random things to think about when considering races are, in no particular order...

1.There are elves, drow, and half-elves..but no half-drow. Perhaps create a half-drow class that is similar to the half-elves, but allow for a dark-knight or shaman, for example be played. The race would nearly be identical to half-elves, but allow for playing of evil professions.

2. Create racial legacies for the illithid and gnomes to account (even if slightly) for their much abused racial weaknesses. Illithids could actually just go with how they stand right now. There have been only 3 illithids in the realms with a total of 30 hours of playing time according to the abandonedrealms.com race listings.

3. Rethink some race/class combinations. This is a tricky one, and I wouldnt want to mess with balance, but what really would be the harm of a duergar dark-knight or even the old avian dark-knight combo(considering dark-knights are no longer as viable or powerful as they once were). There are elven rangers, why no drow (is this because the balance of good and evil classes would be tipped)?

4. Where are the forces of neutrality in the healing department. Perhaps a new class that has a balance of diminished healing and maledictives? Or something all together new. I would like to see something like a neutral hybrid class (like paladin or dark-knight) as well as a neutral healing type class (like shaman or healer). The druid was a good example of what I would like to see, though I think the druids of old could be good or evil, I would like to see neutral only.

5. Any thoughts on new races altogether? Orcs and Deep Gnomes (svirfneblin) would be possibilities.

Ideally this topic will result in some genuine ideas or comments, for and against, without flames or the oft-time typical responses from certain individuals such as "these are stupid ideas so stfu", etc. For the record, as Davarius often indicates when these types of posts are made, I am not trying to make a class that I play better...since I have never got a dark knight over rank 15 and I dont play rangers or paladins or illithids or gnomes for that matter. My interest is to make the mud less stagnant, more dynamic, and present more opportunities to those who do newly enter the realms, as well as generate more enthusiasm for the mud for those who are old veterans.

[Ergorion]

I would like to correct your comment that illithids do not have racial legacies. Although they are not listed under the categories of "racial legacies" in the help files, illithids have plenty of them. They have shock, the ability to redirect their mana to their health when they "die" the first time. They have cone of force which I believe is an area stun attack. Finally, they have leech which allows them to suck the knowledge from the mind of another mage granting them temporary proficiency in a spell from another class.

I don't know if gnomes have any racial legacies, but I know they have auto-mastered skills (lore among others I do believe). I think that certain races are meant to be more difficult to play, but all are able to be played well (Zrakkalon for an illithid, and I'm sure there have been quality gnomes).

In response to the half-drow, there have been players (Jinxai for one) who have described themselves as being half-drow. From a role-playing stand point, I do not think that half-drow makes as much sense as half-elf. Drow see themselves as superior to humans in every way, and I doubt that they would be caught dead cavorting with a human in any intimate setting. Though the drow escorts might provide enough of a role-play justification.

With respect to the neutral cleric/warrior cleric, I had similar thoughts. Now that we have Keepers, I was thinking about how a warrior cleric or mage like a DK or paladin could be incorporated into a neutral role, but I decided to wait until I get a Keeper to think about how that dynamic would work.

New races would be a difficult thing to suggest. A comprehensive suggestion involving adding a race would have to encompass possible stats for them (with reasons why), possible classes (again with reasons why), and potentially a brief statement regarding how they would fit in with the dynamic of AR as a whole.

[Mahkan]

You are forgetting the Gnome racial legacy of being able to have a retarded name.

[Vevier]

I don't know how much you read of that strythmas quest from last december (or how much you remember) but I did a lot of research on the history of the races, which I feel is the reason why we don't have half drow. In the beginning when the elves and humans were made, they lived in peace and intertraded and intermarried and everything was good between them. Some of them fell in love and had half elven babies. Then the battle of Greginsham came about and some dwarves and elves who had participated in the betrayal which caused the elves to lose the fight, fled underground. One of the gods smited them, turning them into dark dwarves and dark elves. (Duergar and drow).

I realize that a lot of people don't rp this. A lot of people take the Forgotten Realms standard of drow (even a bit in ar with our Underdark and that set up down there), which is okay. RP on AR is very open and if you don't jive with the actual History, then that's alright. You can be as creative as you want, but the fact is that AR is probably going to match what the history says. Even according to the history current elves and drow between human, you could make the argument that there should not be very many half-elves. The helpfile about them says (paraphrased) that they were once welcomed in both societies (human and elven) but after the Great War were welcome in neither. Based off this history, I can't see having half-drow.

As for the neutral healer, I would support that. Just because you are not good or evil doesn't mean that you do not worship a god, and if you are a Cleric, then you should have the ability to heal, at least to some degree. It would be nice to see a sort of generic Cleric class, which could cross all three alignments.

[Mummy]

[Mahkan]

[Arishel]

I've brought the half-drow up to Dav a long time ago, and I can't remember what he told me, but I just sucked it up and tried to think of new ideas. Still thinking about those new ideas. Lol. On another note, I remember a time when someone fought for the two guilds, Psionicist's and Druids, I think. Psi's fell to these big trees, if I remember correctly, and Druid's place still stands. Any newfound hope for a return of the druids? Perhaps a branch-off of a lvl 30 ranger? Just wondering, since some of the skills were close between the two. Save the chants, of course.

[Viggs]

I dont think we have all figured out the last batch of changes and if i member right there is still more coming soon as the lazy imms get off their asses and do something ,, sitting around eating bon-bons watching soap operas all day i dont think count as doing something ...
Everyone should make the crappiest combo they can think of for their next person ,, the realms will be full of odditys and it would change things up for the next few months ,,, Holy shit I had An Idea!!!!!!!

[Ergorion]

gnome warriors ftw.

[Vevier]

Drow Rangers-Drizzt notwithstanding, drow do not live in the outside world. They live deep in the tunnels of Underdark or the bowels of the world or some other name that you want to call the world beneath the world that we live and walk on/in. Rangers tend to live in the woods and the plains, out in the fresh air world which we all might enjoy if we could tear ourselves away from our computers for a time. Since the tunnels deep inside the earth do not have the same trees and animals and thus the ability to learn how to carve bows and arrows and to find benificial herbs and such would be foreign to them.

[Elvena]

underdark isnt just some caves with nothing but rock..

There would have to be viable food and water sources, and that means discovering those things. There is fauna in the underdark, and lots of poisonous stuff as well as undrinkable water. someone would have to be able to find more sources and discover which sources already known are safe or not. sounds like ranger class to me. just change beast call to beast enslavement. drow are all about using others as pawns when useful.

[Davairus]

Drow ranger... no.. you can play an evil ranger already by choosing human then evil. Drow rangers aren't going to be liked by people that dont have a forgotten realms fetish. We deliberately steer clear of them. It will attract ERP.

Avian dark-knight umm so you want a character flying around of its own volition in spite of wearing superheavy armor. They dont have the necessary strength for that. Nonsense.

Duergar dark-knights are problematic because of their resist/vuln mechanics, those are particularly exagerrated in dwarf races and that doesnt mesh well with any of the hybrids. It would make some matchups way too unfavoruable, you would see players whining theyre too good and duergar dk's whining they get jacked too easy, and someone would say theres sufficient whining on both sides to call it "balanced". Thats not how we do things.

There are unexplored race/class combos out there and there are new races that can be generated that DO fit the AR rubrik, what I am seeing though is you are regurgitating the same tired out "uber" crap that we -already- gave the chop. Obviously I have to say no. And youre complaining about stagnancy in a game that has lasted ten years of operation. Want to see stagnancy? Swing by the d2 forums, watch them begging for ladder resets and new patches. The roleplaying here is the only thing really distinguishing us from those games.

[Mummy]

[Elvena]

[Davairus]

Not the same thing with warriors, they would be quite happy wearing leather as long as it has +dam on it. DK has unholy armor spell encouraging it to look for heavy plate.

Different stat maxes is the right way to go.. you have to choose some diff. maxes and see what kinda classes they fit. Then you can give it a name. Balance is first done mathematically and the rp clothes are added afterward.

[Stiehl26]

Davarius says,

[Elvena]

well what it looks like is one person saying certain combos were removed for game balance reasons, and another saying that a certain class is underplayed so opening more combos for it would be a good thing. But its the balance issue thats the reason its not open..

[bassball]

Balance issue? Bringing druids back would be a balance issue? I don't understand that..
I thought they were gone because they were getting remade and it was just taking awhile, which I try not to complain about because I don't have the slightest idea what it takes to code anything.

I think it'd be cool to see a few more minor changes like Stiehl says, they make everyone happy, even if they're small.

I don't like the whole entirely new race thing though, I like AR because it isn't stupid and cliche like other muds, personally I think having goblin and orc and ogre as race options is stupid. Those things are better left as mobs. imho

[Resatimm]

uh druids werent a balance issue? Did you ever fight a druid? Tornado, the area effect hellstream with 1 round lag? The potions that cast heal on him with no lag. The healing spells that are equivalent to cure critical? Their blessings which was equivalent to protection and sanctuary? Their charmies? Their warrior fighting skills? Druids were insanely overpowered, and 100% unbalanced life.

[Amdorin]