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Flying Hampster of Doom
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 423
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 8:03 pm Post subject: Shield Cleave |
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Why the hell can a berserker, using a whip, cleave a shield, like every fifth time...? That seems a little odd.. In fact I invite anyone to cleave a buckler of any type.. with a whip. |
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Viggs
Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 383
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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What if the Whip is like Magic or something strange like that? |
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Quiet Wanderer
Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 547 Location: Western Michigan
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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A whip should not cleave anything... unless it is made of scale or steel, in which case it more flail than whip. It's still just wrong for a whip to cleave anything... And i'm going to have to try this in game now.. It'll be funny. |
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Athaekeetha
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 62 Location: Calgary, Canada
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject: Whips |
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While I agree that in most circumstances a whip should not be *as good* at cleaving weapons/shields, I wont deny the possibility of a lucky hit.
A properly wielded whip can deliver a *lot* of force. Think for instance of the sound of a whip being cracked. The reason it makes that sound is that the "tail" of the whip is breaking the sound bearier... awfully fast, with an awful lot of force.
Now, I would think that in some situations this would be sufficient force to shatter a not-so-well constructed wooden goblin buckler for instance. I can envision a whip shattering a peice of plywood for instance
Add on a little magic, as someone else suggested, and a little luck, and it could be possible (however unlikely) to hit a small flaw in a better constructed shield of some other material to similar effect. |
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Avendin
Joined: 30 Jan 2004 Posts: 400
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:17 am Post subject: |
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An average 17 whip is as powerful as an average 17 mace, but definitely not as concussive. Perhaps shield cleave should have a modifier based on your weapon depending on how concussive they are, maybe according to how well they parry because that seems to follow how concussive the blow from the weapon is (whips and daggers are the worst and staffs and maces are the best). |
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Xonovik
Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 72 Location: MinneFreakinSota
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:48 am Post subject: |
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I see whips cleaving wooden shields.. no matter what the whip is.. although many shields are metal, and hard to break that material with most whips..
Cleaving anything with whips for that matter is weird.
If this is the case, then the actual cleave skill should also work with whips. |
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Seryie
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 574 Location: Australia, Adelaide
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Why the hell can a berserker, using a whip, cleave a shield, |
which moron zerker would be wielding something they cannot be proficient in? berzerkers CANNOT learn whip.. duh. |
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Hamp
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 212 Location: New York, USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I believe he is talking about training it... which makes less sense.. you aren[t proficient in it but at the same time every fifth try you cleave the shield.. that makes absolutly no sense.. sorry if I've spelled shit wrong, been drinking again... |
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Sebryn
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 1185
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps shield cleave should have a modifier based on your weapon depending on how concussive they are |
Maybe instead of that, base it off the damage type (slash, beating, crush, etc.), or even more specifically off the weapon type... i.e. - swords/axes, etc. can cleave better than a mace, which can cleave better than a dagger, which can cleave better than a whip, which can cleave better than a staff, et cetera, et cetera.
That's just if it needs a more 'realistic' feel, if the IMMs/IMPs have it the way they do for a reason, then it's there for a reason. |
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Flying Hampster of Doom
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 423
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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I would agree that there is some percentage of luck, yet every fifth time no matter what buckler is not luck, it is a percentage. And it was every fifth time like clock work, my sparring partner and I ran through around 40 bucklers really quickly, and my percentage didnt budge a damn inch. |
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Emtro
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Behind the binoculars.
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:05 am Post subject: |
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Train shield cleave with spear. Next please! |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10368 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Uh, his findings illustrated that the weapon wielded has nothing to do with the success rate of the shield cleave. You can expect skills like this to be hard to train, since they're a pain in the ass to have happen to you. I mean, your shield isnt just disarmed, its gone. Very frustrating for your victim. |
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Dhampiri
Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 54
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:08 pm Post subject: hrm |
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What you all are trying to do is mix realism with the balance of a game...Everything cannot be real...its a fantasy game. Last time I checked...I couldn't blow an ice storm out of my ass...although if one places a lighter near it and farts...you can create a fireball. The point is..its a fantasy game and balance is required to make it all fair...like Dav said...it should be hard to train..because its pretty devestating to someone who relies on a shield for defense, and suddenly doesn't have one at all. |
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marsd
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 832 Location: Magewares
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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lol or your shield is the uber overpowered shield of everlasting darkness or whatever.. |
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Dhampiri
Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 54
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:42 pm Post subject: heh |
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Well said marsd...
Oh and...
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which moron zerker would be wielding something they cannot be proficient in? berzerkers CANNOT learn whip.. duh. |
Duh....weirdo...They cannot use whip....which is precisely why someone would use it to train.....smart guy.. |
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Seryie
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 574 Location: Australia, Adelaide
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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This is just for Dhampiri so here we go.
quote the post where they said training before i posted? ohh whats that YOU CANT ohh fuck me. i forgot i can't actually read minds obviously you can idiot.
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Duh....weirdo...They cannot use whip....which is precisely why someone would use it to train.....smart guy.. |
prove to me the that the % in the weapon your using, doesn't influence if you can cleave better... your damage goes up with % in the weapon.. so obviously your hitting harder, if your hitting harder more chance of the shield being cleaved? doesn't that make sense? thats was the reasoning behind my post. ohh but thats right you probably know nothing past pulling bullshit outa your ass my bad.
Unless of course you know the mechanics of the game. which was pointed out by dav that the type of weapon your wielding doesnt change your chance to cleave ( hence my post reasoning was actually wrong, but how was I to know? ).. if you really did know the mechanics you would've posted earlier stating it.. but you didnt did you? so were obviously in the same boat you just seem to wait until things have been pointed out techinically and then trash all the posts before that which were wrong? ohh yea i can see the justification in that one.
You call me stupid.. OHH UMM let's see here...
Davarius said:
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his findings illustrated that the weapon wielded has nothing to do with the success rate of the shield cleave. |
And then you come out and obviously being the high and all mighty god you are, you obviously already knew this or you just claim you did in order to justify calling someone else dumb.. but once again i refere to the point where if you really did know that you would've posted prior to davarius stating that. but you didn't so heres two words.. fuck off? |
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Avendin
Joined: 30 Jan 2004 Posts: 400
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Breathe in... breathe out... |
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TheOneAndOnly
Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 178 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:20 pm Post subject: Crap. |
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Jesus, I know the skill is useful. But I have been practicing it for three days for about 5-8 hrs a day and it has gone up once...from 75-76. I am a giant, with quite a number of quest..is this productivity normal?? |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10368 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Whoever is training it already found that the weapon type didnt matter is shield cleave. Thats why they posted right? I replied to confirm their findings were correct and why I thought things were left that way, I didn't actually reveal those mechanics myself. Original poster did that. There are enough other factors involved, nevermind worrying about your weapon type.
If you actually want to figure out how skills work, don't rely on roleplaying logic. While it is true that in a lot of cases, things will make good sense from most roleplayer's point of view, there are some times that sacrifices have been made for gameplay.. all that will give you is a nice place to start. But its not the whole picture. Combat skills are majorly affected by this stuff:
1) skill % in that skill
2) stat comparisons between target and attacker (strength and dex being most common)
3) fun fluff (e.g. hiding being easier in a dark room)
4) success rate caps
Now shield cleave, I see as being not unlike the dark-knight cleave skill.. you simply can't cleave somebody in half with whips, maces, staffs, etc. So I would probably take a guess that the skill ought to have been disabled completely for certain weapon types. This is the best way to avoid absurd outcomes like this... somebody probably thought it made sense for a whip to cut an obsidian shield in half. |
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Dhampiri
Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 54
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:56 am Post subject: .... |
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but you didn't so heres two words.. fuck off? |
Hahaha |
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