Retaining "new players"

[bassball]

Monkey, you said that the new flag would not work because after the month(should only be three weeks!) is over they will get raped because they dont know how to fight, but I said that they should beable to fight, people can attack them, they can attack people, but neither them nor the vet(or whoever it is) can loot from the corpses. Sounds like a good plan to me

[Phostan]

Asides from all this talk about giving them a flag and what not, what about extending newbie chat to them? Or making a different global q/a channel for newbies past level 10? I have newbies ask me questions when I group with them all the time, and I don't really feel like telling them to ask someone else, if its 4 in the morning and there's only two other people on. Even at level 30 you have newbies, like Saern. So either another channel, or maybe even an 'adopt a chump' program. When you make a new character, if you answer no to being new to the realms, it could bring up another question, 'Are you capable enough to be able to teach someone the ropes?' Y/N? 'Would you like to' Y/N? Then if someone agrees to be, when they create their new character, anyone who answered yes to being new would be made aware that there's someone willing to show them some things and answer some questions, and the person willing to teach them would be made aware that there's someone who might need their help. A more hands on approach then just answering questions. It's hardly flawless, some people might think they're helping someone by powerleveling them to 10, but others would take the time to walk them around slowly and help them progress along at a much more controlled pace.

[Xazappith]

I don't think that the flag should have too many strange effects. I think, if it is offered, then it should be a choice you make at creation (Are you new to mudding or this mud?) question. If they say Yes, give them the flag and simply give them unlimited newbie channel. Lots of questions come up after the tenth rank. Or extend to them a different newb channel that is seperate from the existing channel, but still works the same way, only people with the new tag and immortals and cabaled players can hear it. If you think it'd be too much work for them, then open the option to 50's too. Make it automatically off. That way they aren't being coddled from the reality of the game, but they aren't totally on their own once they lose newbie chat.

[elminster135]

Alright, first of all, having a newbie flag for a month is not good. It's true that in a month any veteran from AR could learn most of a world and how to play a game like this, but some people play games far less regularly than your standard AR vet.

The problem is not what level people can start fighting, it's learning how to fight in general. No matter what level you start being PKable you won't be better off for it. I played for a little while a couple years ago, and just recently came back to the game, so I consider myself fairly new. The problem is fights go to fast, and if you're fighting a vet, they can track you down if you try to run.

So to solve the problem at first I was thinking like a slight HANDICAP so that newbies are harder to kill, say for their first couple PK's they have a fairly high handicap, and their handicap trails off, so that they have to get better to keep fighting people. Also looting would have to be limited, but they would still need to get used to being looted, it's gonna happen sooner or later.

Of course the question of what would happen if a good player were to try and abuse this rule comes up, and the only thing I can think of to limit this is to cap the handicap at a certain level...say at level 30 all handicaps disappear regardless. This means high level characters wouldn't have to put up with it.

Another problem is that AR is really hard to learn by yourself. I have especially noticed the lack of players essays describing how you can play certain races/classes well that I had read and taken to heart when I originally started playing. AR is not a game you can just pick up and learn, you need help....lots of help, or you get frustrated and quit.

I will try to think about more ideas for this.

[Emo+o]

Elminister,

are you the Elminister from CO, ConquerOnline?
Crystal server?

I am Indinine from CO

[trance_monkey]

I, frankly, love the idea of a new flag. I notice this hasn't been implemented, or else hardly anyone chooses it, 'cos I haven't ever seen one I don't think. I wonder if newbies don't pick it 'cos they want to figure it out, but not be babied? I donno. I wonder if there would be a way to figure out newbies based on IP logons. Like, if their location is less than a month old, they get a flag? Maybe like Noble's could be privy to the new flags from ip/isp logon.

Regardless of that suggestion, the biggest thing I think theObserver already mentioned in another post.

Most players can take getting totally banged, as long as they get their eq back. EQ loss is more discouraging, in most cases, 'cos it seems like backward progress to building your (possibly first) character. Prolonged newbie chat ability, player essays, etc., would also help a lot.

[Saegen]

[elminster135]

Nope, I've never heard of ConquerOnline or Crystal Server.

[josef_kaye]

What this thread needs is an honest-to-god AR newbie. Well, here I am, and here's my perspective. Tell me what you guys think.

Some background: I played a non-PK mud for some years, then quit for a long time, and around a month or so ago I somehow found AR--I think on one the mud connector sites ("Vote, you fools!"). I'm playing my first char, and I've got him up to rank 41 so far.

What concerns me most as a rank newbie is this: this is a PK-centric mud, but I have absolutely NO idea how to fight. There's no way of learning to PK, no way that you can become competent besides just accepting that for your first several encounters, you get reamed before you know what's happening. I suggest that this can be a discouraging experience for the newcomer. It's not a question of never wanting to die or lose eq. Rather, it's that you know you can't hold your own in a fight for many months to come. The new player is likely to go off and find a mud where his first N chars aren't going to be sacrifices to the AR vets in the name of learning.

[That said, it's far easier to gain ranks and semi-decent eq off mobs here than my last mud, and the RPing, quests, and general player and mob interaction is pretty damn cool, enough to keep me playing.]

I suggest that there be some way to get new players to PK early and PK often, and in a consequence-free way if they choose. Encourage players around 30 and above to get to the arena and smack each other around, but make it so that the deaths don't count and there is no looting. I think if you implement this, getting into "real" PK won't be so intimidating, and you'll have better fights as well. (I'm sure there are several ways in which these "training fights" can be set up so that they don't go against the grain of RPing, either).

I can't be the first person to suggest this, so I feel this must have come up and been rejected before. At any rate, I'd like to know what people think of the idea.

[marsd]

[Davairus]

Well you could try reading logs, especially your own. Go for a fight, save the log, re-read it and see what you can take from it ...this is how I learnt to fight, before the first AR logboard came out. Sort of.

[First-fantasy]

Okay I've been around for few months now and I get pk'ed all the time...Yet, I don't see a problem in it. I guess not all players can be as carefree as me about it though so I suppose this seems to be a worthy topic. I really like the no strings attatched pk practice battles idea. I have three characters all above twenty-five at least, and I still don't know how to pk. Granted I havn't made much effort to learn as of yet, but others may be more apt to take advantage of these nice little fights in order to sharpen their skills. I'm not sure how complicated that would be to accomplish, but it seems like a really good idea.

The other stuff, however, I don't see much point in. Looting is a pain, and a limit would be nice, but you just have to get used to it somehow. Taking away pk or whatnot is just silly. Part of ar is getting ganked by vets, what the hell else is there to do besides slut up the town? (Don't get me wrong, just plain RP is wonderful, but without getting pk'ed what point is there to being good or evil, lets all just be neutral and watch the sun rise together... )

One last thing in this seemingly inchohearant rant. I don't think the newb flag should be taken away after a month or three weeks or any time period. Base it off of pks. I know after FOUR months of playing I don't think I've accumulated more then 1 pk for three characters.

Newbster out.

[Addreodyn]

I don't think preventing new players from being pk'ed is necessarily a good thing. PK is the most exciting part of the game -- I know it's what made me keep playing. The only real way to learn to pk is to do it, and do it often. Of course, new players are afraid to pk because they don't want to lose their items.

Suggestions:
1. The NEW flag (chosen at character creation) prevents other players from taking items from your corpse (with the exception of limited items) and similarly prevents you from taking items from other people's corpses. The NEW flag lasts until you either reach level 35 or achieve 5 pks.
2. All players can only take 1 item at a time from another players corpse. Taking items from a corpse gives a slight lag. There is no restriction for taking items from your own corpse.
3. Newbie chat is available for any player at any level.

I haven't played in more than a year so I feel like a newb myself now

[Amdorin]

With regards to newbs not knowing how to fight, a big part of it is trial and error, but it would be nice to hear some intuitive talk from the game.

In a thread far far away and long ago I suggested something about changing the daycare into a dwarven training grounds. Or make a place that will become common to walk through and even if you aren't in the room of whatevers fighting (low level mobs constantly missing) you can hear them yelling,

[Flight_Control]

Hi everyone.

I introduced myself in a previous post...so go to that post and write to me (lust the postwhoring).

I'd just like to toss in my 2 cents in what goes through my mind in retaining pbase. I came to AR through mudconnector because this mud is as close to the previous MUD that I played. Pbase waned there because there was no specific plan on how the mud was going to be revamped.

In reading the boards here, I see that Burzuk and the rest of the staff seem to have a vision on where we're going and what we're doing. I like that. Also, I like the interaction that we get on the mud with the automated quests, tasks and other things. It's a nice touch--haven't seen it on the previous muds that I've played. Rare/unique eq is also something different that I haven't seen.

Newbie problems I have seen:

1. Consider first that everyone who comes onto AR expects different things. Some might expect quick leveling and step into pk. It all depends. The newbie school is a great greeting, but maybe you should provide some better start-off eq so leveling is not so agonizing for those who don't have the equipment?

2. Combat on this MUD is QUICK. PK is lightning fast. If you're not ready or even semi-afk, you could die very quickly when you're not in your guild. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but the quick pk, along with the low level 10 start for pk can turn some people off, particularly those who don't have help in getting the better eq for the lower levels. Perhaps that newbie flag can be attached til 20. At level 10, I was still trying to figure out Drkshyre Woods and barely got out of Miden'ir. At about level 20, I figured out Drkshyre and the Mansion, but I didn't know where to hide so I kept getting my ass handed to me because I just couldn't get away. Furthermore, dying over and over and over as soon as ghost status faded was really irritating. Finally, losing your corpse, is the most disheartening thing. Re-equiping with the guild is nice, but just losing the corpse or getting looted really sucks. Perhaps make a command for newbies to summon their corpses to their Temples? And I think that a newbie flag on a character but permitting a character no rares is a novel idea

3. Perhaps a bit too much emphasis on groups? Most people start out by themselves and after mud school...leveling is SO SLOW. That might turn people off. Group bonuses are nice, but perhaps, at least for low level true newbies, don't cap the xp so low?

4. I know you can only do so much to help someone learn the mud...eventually they have to learn it for themselves. You should probably promote the forums MUCH MORE as I've garnered alot of knowledge from here, particularly about the consumables for battle prep.

5. Finally, as to RP, Lightwalkers, help each other out, especially in the guild! If you got spare change or spare eq, slide it to a newbie (assuming there's a flag). Tell them a bit where to get it. I got alot of information from Riley (now deceased), Riem. While Heralds are here to help the MUD population... lightwalkers, as RP, should be helping each other out also. Knights, where you at? Defending the light is nice, but promotion of social justice (note I didn't say law) would be good RP for Knights?

------------

Suggestions from an experienced mudder:

1. MORE IMM INTERACTION. I know I know that immortals shouldn't be interacting too much. But I think some daily quests... like a list of things to bring to the imm in 5 minutes might work. I did one quest where an immortal told us to bring the most expensive item we knew about. That was interesting. Prizes can be gold or low level rares? Or perhaps even restring tokens?

2. Make a stock exchange, fluctuating prices in the realms. Maybe this makes it a little bit more exciting, maybe its useless, I don't know...but hear me out. We've got a bank to store gold. Make a list of 10 stocks we can buy. Maybe we can invest in Maika's business, maybe in Aanam's armor. Let the stock prices fluctuate...we can sell when it's high, buy when low. Might NEED to sell when low when you need cold, hard cash. You can limit shares so people don't make too much money. Or you can have prices fluctuate in the realms so it costs more to buy a potion one day versus the next. Supply and demand right?

3. Make a scrimmage code? In the old mud that I used to play, a scrimmage was a sort of pk fest you could join without losing equipment. Let's say you set the level limit from 30-40. Only levels 30-40 could join. You could set it up capture the flag where each team has to defend a specific area or you could set it up with a free for all. Or teams, with no grouping. Of course, the winning team gets a prize. All potions and such, of course, are at the expense of the participants. If you set up a war like 25-30 or something like that, more newbies might be apt to join and get a feel for pk without risking the eq.

4. SEIGE! Goblin defense mode. Set a day. Seringale gets INVADED by goblins of varying strengths. They start to beat ass just by sheer numbers. Everyone, good and evil is called to Seringale to stop the goblins. Damn, evils can even HELP the goblins. Casting sanctuary, whathave you. That would be completely wild. Assuming everyone works together, there should be some useful eq on the goblin corpses or the immortals should reward the mortals for defending their city of Seringale. Maybe 2 seiges at the same time where Valour is seiged and Seringale. People would have to choose leaders to lead the groups. I think it would be quite entertaining.

5. Mud sex. I don't know what's going on up in the sky, but us mortals get REALLY bored at times and sometimes, when you're hunting and such...and your third is sleeping to regen and you've got a hot human FEMALE group member who's feeling it too...you kind of... want to mess around, you know? There should be a module for that.

I'M JOKING about #5

Anyway, this has been a LONG enough note so let me know what you all think.

Thanks.

Necromancer Extraordinaire.

Flight_Control.

[Vhrael]

[Kazagistar]

[The Zealot]

I get what you guys are saying, believe me. In fact, the idea of 'practice' sparring and lengethening combat has been brought up a few times on the forums, even since I've been here. I was (and, to an extent, still am) having the exact same problems.

http://abandonedrealms.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1793
http://abandonedrealms.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1867
There are probably a few more, but I can't find them since the search feature doesn't seem to be working.

It's bloody frustrating to be greased in two rounds at about level 23. However, as people told me in the above thread, and having tried it out myself, it really is just practice. Go for a low exp combo, and something that can tank fairly well (warrior, zerker, *ranger*), hit thirty five or so and learn. Aggressiveness is key to winning at that rank, either that or the ability to run like hell (sleep, come back and then take the intiative).

Obviously make sure you have the potions and spells you need. Try not to play mages if you don't know the game so well - there's a reason that they're not recommend for newbies.

As has been brought up before, there's a secondary pk plateau at about 35-40, where a lot of newer players (and some trashy experienced ones) duke it out. Rank there and fight as much as you can. It doesn't matter if your character is a 1-61 in the graveyard, you'll learn.

Another idea is to hit 36 or so, and challenge people in the Arena (Timaran) for a stand-up duel, rather than a malicious PK. That way it's all kept nice and amicable, and they may even offer pointers (I tend to, if I wax the other guy easily...).

If you go aggressive, it shouldn't take you long (a couple of characters maybe) to be able to hold your own at low-medium ranks. High ranks, however, are a different matter entirely.

Good luck.

p.s. It took me two sodding *weeks* to learn the 'who group' command. Think yourself lucky you got it in a couple of hours. That shit got me pwned as a lowbie...level 10 shaman asking a level 15 Paladin if he wanted to kill some elves...ouch.

[Kessor Natul]

Oops... that was probably me....sorry.... Anyways, yeah I like the whole idea of the practice PK rounds and it sounds great and the no loot deal is awesome, but it should be RISK-FREE. By that I mean does not count as a deth and if you die 5 times in practice, no punishment and no loss of constitution point. No loss of hp either.

Anyone else laugh themselves to death about flight_controls comment about sieges from goblins and stuff? It was a good idea. Yeah. We had that happen with treants some time ago. That was sweet. We have been bugging the imms to do that in the mystics post from some time ago.... That is still a great idea......Do it now imms! *whimpers plaintitively* (please?)

[Sethronu]

i am of the opinion that pk records could take a hit when pking someone with a new flag (that everyone can see) rather than level differences that i think is fair and square