Retaining "new players"

[rakham]

this is my first character here, so i hope my input will be apprectiated.

i think the main problem is that this mud is promoted as RP/PK, yet there is hardly any RP enforcement as far as ive seen. granted, ive been playing for only a month or so, but ive seen nothing in the way of RP enforcement.

an example of what i mean is that a friend of my character neede to kill a random person in order to join the "justice" cabal. thats not very just.

then ive got knights telling me they hate me becuase i defended myself and my group. what? this has happened twice now.

then there is the rampant pk'er, which happens, but its supported by this mud. thinking about this, i cannot think of a single person that went around in the real world murdering anyone they came into contact with. all murderers/psycho killers have a 'demographic' they go after. only characters that are "lawful evil" have the capacity to lead and command a force powerful enough to kill everyone in their way. every other guy in the world trying to do that doesnt make much sense. which, i suppose, brings us back to consequences.

there is no RP enforcement. i can go kill whoever i want, no holds barred. i came to this mud cause i thought there was some RP enforced, yet i hear people yelling "AVE 19 1 DAM 3HIT" in seringale, and no one pays it any mind.

if you want to retain new players, advertise the mud for what it is. say 'RP optional, PK manditory'. i love pk, mind you, but i also enjoy RP.

other than that, this is a -very- impressive mud, and im willing to sacrifice the RP element just to enjoy the very excellent codebase the IMPS have created.

[Vhrael]

[theobserver]

We are pretty good at enforcing some RP things - You won't find character names like FluffyBunny the killer here or people with childish descriptions. In addition to what Vhrael mentioned above, there is also both the 'report' command which brings badly behaved players to our attention and the 'complaint' command.

But the problem with enforcing rp is the 'force' part. The best way for players to learn is from other players. Imm's can warn the worst offenders and do their best to create an suitable rp enviroment but the players themselves set the best example.

[Burzuk]

We do enforce what we consider to be baseline RP requirements -- things like acceptable names, align-appropriate behavior (not having bloodthirsty paladins killing elves and healers, for example), having an adequate appearance, and many other similar RP rules have all been designed to maintain a consistent and "sane" RP enviroment. Actual RP though, such as an origin story your character, coming up with character motivations, character moods and attitudes, speech diction and tone, and so forth are all at the discretion of the players. I've played on muds where things like "describe who your character's parents were" and using thee's and thou's and so forth were all demanded of players, and it turned role-playing into a silly game of jumping through pointless hoops to do what had become a huge chore for everyone involved. RP on AR is supposed to be fun. If you read the Graveyard posts, especially for the well-remembered characters, you may be surprised by the amount of RP references you see.

In addition, I'm comfortable saying that AR has previously had and will continue to have some superbly role-played characters. If you can make it out of the meat grinder of the lower levels to actually hit 50 and yet you still say that you don't find people roleplaying at 50 -- well, I don't know if anyone here would find that credible at all.

By the way, as an Imp I'd like to say that the issues that new players are bringing up have certainly interesting (and now wholly unexpected), and there are definitely things in this thread that are being taken seriously. But the three most common failings I'm seeing from the suggestions are:

1) Not enough attention paid to how griefers will be abusing these suggestions;
2) Not enough attention paid to preventing experienced players from milking this for a free ride all the way up to whenever the upper threshold is, especially since we DO expect the game to be challenging from 1-50 and not just from 35-50; and
3) Too much attention paid on being "forgiving" and not enough on "teaching". For example, how do you teach newbies to get back to, find, and loot their own corpse quickly after a PK? How do you instill on them the sense that they need to be checking where all the time? And so on. Otherwise, much of what's being suggested is actually going to hurt newbies by holding their hands but simply delaying the immersion shock until a later level, when instead the focus should be on learning all the necessary fundamentals. Improving your PK skills isn't what beginners need to learn most -- it's survival and bouncing back from deaths.

Lastly, we want to help newbies learn how to stay and have fun on AR, but we also don't want to cause more problems for our Imm staff. So keep this in mind while making your suggestions, since you may not have considered any additional Imm time and oversight requirements, or what may be vulnerable to abuse, etc. And ultimately, helping players last a little longer vs. helping then become more competent are two different and often unrelated things altogether. The "pay your dues" system works because it forces people to learn very quickly, and replacing that system doesn't mean just coming up with an alternative, but instead means you'll need something that works even better.

[Kessor Natul]

[Burzuk]

[Erlwith]

Disclaimer: This post is really long. But I'd be crazy to say it wasn't worth the read.

I originally hated the PK atmosphere in this MUD. Part of the reason I went Herald even after a year+ of playing.

I had come from MUDs where RP was enforced, and things were fair. So naturally it was an incredible shock when I came here and got killed over and over again for doing nothing at all.

Therein lies the problem. There are two types of player, the ones who can handle the obsessive PK environment, and those who can't. I think the best way to retain newbies is to teach them to be the ones who can handle the obsessive PK environment. There needs to be more information for newbies to properly convey to them that they will be killed A LOT enough so, that they actually understand that they will actually be killed A LOT. Especially if they're new. (Which is the problem, new players can't fight well and who wants to spend the time learning to fight in a game they might not even like? Getting to 10 is a pretty quick process and there's not enough time to decide if they actually like the game or not. Then they die, well you know which way their vote is going to swing.)

Point and case, this is not a MUD for the RPer, this is a MUD for the PKer who doesn't want to play an EQ or WoW type MUD. MUDs for the most part were originally designed with RP in mind, not PK - and thus, the majority of average MUD players will go to games they can RP in first and PK in after, if at all.

I've come to accept the PK environment now, not like it. However, there's very few games where the owners take such active interest in the players and actually care about balance and gameplay for the individual character. THAT is why I stay, I think that is why others stay as well. That is what sets this MUD apart, because trust and believe I don't keep logging in to be endlessly slaughtered.


My suggestion is: about 10 seconds after creating a new character, in big red letters have the new character see "SEE HELP TIPS FOR VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION". Then, update help tips. It needs to be clear that this is a primarily PK MUD where RP is enforced, that people who can PK you probably will- unless you're good- then generally good and neutrals won't attack you. Also add to HELP TIPS to learn the lay of the land so you can hide properly and hiding in your guild is a safe bet at low levels. Let them know in HELP TIPS they will probably die several times before they even hit 30, but to keep up hope and that OUTFIT at a guild tutor can get them new armor to wear for now for a low amount of gold.

I remember my very first character was a human bard, and I was killed and no one really gave a shit. I had no idea what to do next, and the justice at the time told me to get over it. So I sat around naked for a while, having no clue where to go or how to get anything new and just quit out to find a new game to play. It's just by the luck of the draw I saw something on MUDconnect I think- it was about AR and I decided to give it another shot. Knowing then that people will try to kill you for no reason at all, I was able to prepare myself better and avoid trouble the best I could.

It was awesome being a drow invoker for my second char because I could just flee and tele away from danger.

In any case, those are my thoughts.

[Ashr]

I'm completely new to muds like AR, I come from a mud with optional RP and mindless PK, so dying isn't such a big deal to me. AR already has a lot of stuff that's really helpful. If it wasn't for the outfit command, I would probably have quit or be perpetually naked. At least half my eq is from a guild outfit half the time. The quests are great too. I noticed when I went to make a different char that it is recommended that newbies not play Mages, and I think disclaimers like that are helpful as well. I either didn't read or listen to the disclaimer, or it wasn't there when I made Ashr, but I'm stubborn, who cares.

No one likes to die a bunch. I keep getting 2-rounded by warriors and such because I'm not used to AR's playing style, but the fact is that if I *don't* get 2-rounded by them, I'm never going to learn why it's bad to be unprepared to fight them, so I think AR's current system is pretty good.

One thing I might suggest, though, is putting more warnings outside Cabals, like the one the Justice Cabal has. I accidentally invaded the Warlord Cabal trying to get to Solace, and was consequently 2-rounded by a Warlord.

Sure, I know where that Cabal is now, but there are 3 others, and I have no clue where the other 3 are, and I only know for sure that 1 of them has a warning out front.

[theobserver]

[Kazagistar]

Thanks, I actualy invaded the legion cabal on accident. Got quite the shock when I finaly figured out why that altar just refused to open . Very good thing any Legionares weren't on...

[Amdorin]

[threadjack]hHAHAHAHAHAHAH Kazagistar, ..I absolutely LOVE your signature!!!! HAHAHAHAAHAHAH [/threadjack]

[Vanisse]

that's so old

[Amdorin]

I know but...I dont see anyone else sportin' it on their sign, and it's still funny ...try explaining the joke to someone who doesn't know binary...I still get a kick out of it..then again I'm kind of a dork (kind of) ;p

[Kessor Natul]

Heh. That is on a shirt. I love it. Anywho, yeah, is there one outside legion cabal? Because holy enchiladas I had less luck. I walked in because "Hey! I need to figure out Darkhaven hee hee hee!" So, off I go to discover the last part of thera I dont know about. Shit. Walk down and BAM! I am dead. resting in the seringale temple. That hurt. Anywho, BACK ON TOPIC!

Burzuk, I understand what you mean, but I still believe it would ba a good thing for the no cons/hp/exp penalty-loss-thing. . Just till they get one pk success. Then the limit is rank 20. Not high up, but high enough for a noob (maybe, dont quite know, my first made to rank 14 before I died for my umpteenth time, so I abandoned him....) So, then at twenty, they can completely familiarilize themselves with the PK aspects of the game and everything else they missed before then. Make sure when they begin, that they know they will probably not be the greatest thing since dysentery.... Otherwise, they will be like 'holy shit. I suck ass.' and leave for something that gives them more power (sometimes...not always) I.E. I was attacked by a noob at rank 13. I smeared him on the wall. Then we kept hunting. Another battle, he dies again. Then he tells me fuck this game, fuck you, fuck everything. Then, he never came back (i seriously had nightmares about this because he left because I won. Just so you know how devoted I am (teardrop- you love me) ) anyways, yeah, sometimes they make a drow shaman and be like I own you bastard! hah! then they get wiped like crap of your ass. Then, they quit. Just making sure you knew bout that. I think you should make sure they know that....

[Lydana]

I don't know about other people here, but the only reason I kept at AR was because I had real life friends who introduced me to AR and taught me the ropes. I think this is fairly common since a lot of our playerbase learned about AR in school or from a brother/sister/friend.

Of course, we can't expect everyone to have real life friends at their disposal, but with the new coterie system it would be very possible to have a similar group of in game friends who could show newbs around. I was thinking Patrons might work for this, but they seem to be more of a group for new people who make it into their 20's/30's and need help ranking or getting involved. I would think a coterie of 'guides' (all in their 50's, superb rp), would be ideal for teaching new players the ropes. I invision a 'big brother/big sister' type group. They would need to be highly visable to newbs, and newbs would need to know that they could ask any guide questions. The 'guides' could take newbies on tours of common ranking areas, teach them where to find common non-rare eq (but not get it for them), help give them PKing tips, how to RP, etc. I believe that this would be more effective than newbie-chat alone which is sorta distant and unfriendly. Also, rather than making a new coterie, you could potentially get Heralds and Patrons to do this work, but that might not be the best option.

Experienced players would have no need for such help, and so couldn't take advantage of it. It would give potential imm-wannabes, or bored old players something to do. It doesn't require 'softening' anything or making anything easier for the newbs, other than a way to gather information more efficiently and effectively.

The only downside is that people would want to actually do this terrorfyingly difficult job, and be active fairly frequently. The low level imms also do this type of work, but there aren't really enough of them to be entirely useful.

[rakham]

ive thought up a way to help reduce the out of character problems i complained about above, as per the request.

i think that an OOC (out of character) channel would help alot. this is kind of like tell, but with no reply, where you could conduct OOC conversations, such as asking the mage what the ave of your sword is that they just identified. if you dont want to deal with OOC at all, just toggle it off.

i also like lydana's idea. i come from a mud very similar to this one that i played for way too many years, and during my tenure there i always helped newbies, even if it conflicted with my rp. (i once got in trouble for helping a drow out even though my psych desc said i dont like drow). i would be more than willing to help newbs...even though im new here, i still know alot about muds in general.

[Altheripper]

Ummm, aren't the Guide immortals already supposed to be set up for this? Only problem being that there are none..... I'd volunteer.....

[marsd]

When I first got to know AR it was through a friend giving me a connection instruction. Wasn't really difficult to figure out the ropes of the game at 14. The moving around was cumbersone for a while, until an Imm told me over newb channel you can use shortcuts for almost all c ommands.

Read the helpfiles on the different commands is the best way to go. I got to get to 24 on my first char because of a goodie group that brought me to mansion. Strangely, for some reason unknown to me, I roughly knew how to get back to Seringale but en route on Stasis I got raped in 2 rounds by some guy whom I forgot. When I finally figured why I died, I tried going back to my corpse and asking where the hell should I go and when I finally got to my corpse it was already empty, and someone mentioned it could be in the pits already. The death and a few more didn't faze me, in fact - it got me hooked to AR (damn ar).

Guess that's how someone can get hooked on AR besides me.

[Kessor Natul]

NO! NO OOC CHANNEL! I have SEEN RP enforced MUDS go to shit because of those things. All that portrays to the playerbase is that the imms are lax on their rules and are willing to compromise. Then people take advantage of rules, cheat, trick imms (hard, but you guys are still human.....sorry), kill everyone and find loopholes and find out ways for imms to never find out. IT HAPPENS! Just because you are imm does NOT mean it is perfect! Then, things get bad....you imagine the rest. NO OOC CHANNEL.

[Davor]