Change in cabal conduct?

1. stiehl Change in cabal conduct? -
   Are you more angry about not getting the kill with a moderately significant rank advantage to pad your record or his cabal conduct? I think you are correct though in that there isnt any reason that he should not have been defending.
2. pip Change in cabal conduct? -
   umm...uninduct surezel
   
   surezel, you clearly are not running to your death against a lvl 47 opponent and you took the "needlessly dying" way out of context. try a two vs. one raid or multiple people trying to gank you, not 1 person who isn't even pinnacled. you are just being a pussy and trying to bank on excuses so get out of dying. i assume you probably have a nice rare or something you don't want to lose but you might want to reread what a legion is suppose to be.
   
   btw, you sound like a uneducated fucking tard
3. pip Change in cabal conduct? -
   oh and i think that any NON caballed character should not be preaching to a caballed character about what his conduct is. That is OOC and violation of the rules. You're a hoarding neutral dwarf warrior, what the fuck would you know about the legion of darkness?
4. ivindel Change in cabal conduct? -
   To: Stiehl
   I guess I was that little bit sore for not getting the kill, it does get annoying sometimes when he just keeps quaffing recall and spotted purple potions. So I resorted to cabal intrusion. Cheap on my part. But I had to exploit that advantage, since I am non-caballed anyway, not taking into account the difference in equipment of course. In my opinion, if you are in a cabal, you have to bear the pros and cons of being in one.
   
   To pip:
   I guess you are quite right to say that it is OOC to preach about cabal conduct, but from the help scrolls I am actually able to learn of what exactly constitutes 'cabal conduct', despite the fact that I am non-caballed. So, what is stopping any non-caballed character of gaining the knowledge of cabal conduct?
5. ivindel Change in cabal conduct? -
   Oh and one thing that I forgot to mention, I don't actually have a problem against not killing him. If he can run and I can't track him, I can only blame it on my pathetic tracking skills. However, I simply find it hard to let it slide when he is so blatantly not abiding by the guidelines of being in a cabal. It is simply an act of thrashing upon all the efforts that other caballed characters are putting in to defend their cabal despite being intruded by characters who actually have 10 ranks on them. That, is I cannot tolerate.
6. hampster Change in cabal conduct? -
   This isn't the first time this idiot has done this.
7. der-da-der Change in cabal conduct? -
   Why is a neutral dwarf warrior aggressively pursuing anyone? Did the Legion engage you? If you are not following the guidelines of neutral. I'm not really overly concerned with how other players comply with the rules as the Immortals will handle it, so let them handle it. As for you, this seems like a classic case of whine whine, I'm not getting what I want so I want to find a reason to complain. Well done, you found it. Now read help neutral.
8. neria Change in cabal conduct? -
   surezel is in legion, wicigogord isn't protected, so it is logical that surezel would attempt to force protection on him. besides, anyone in legion is fair game for anyone and everyone. wicigogord is just taking the fight to him. i don't see any issue with him invading alone; as they say, if you can't take the responsibilities that come with the additional cabal powers, don't join a cabal.
9. ivindel Change in cabal conduct? -
   First off, I do not kill excessively. Second, I have reason to pursue him since he is a legionnaire and I do not trust him to not lay a finger on me since he is supposed to strike fear in the minds of others. And just to make it clear, I am not 'whining', because apparently he had been ignoring the defense of his cabal on possibly quite a few occasions and it's high time someone pointed it out. Like I said, I simply cannot stand the way he just ignored the guidelines and happily treat it like it wasn't even worth a shit when everyone else is making it a point to defend their cabals.
10. Clifton Change in cabal conduct? -
    Did you really just post that entire log out of context to slander my character?
    
    Did you really just do that? You sir, are a grade a fucking douchebag.
    
    Each time you invaded was right after we skirmished. I can verify this by posting irc chat logs where I'm bitching about eating 400hp a round through sanc. So I'm sitting around with 15% hp healing up while you're trying to get my to go defend. What kind of shit are you trying to pull? Don't fucking slander my legion because you can't fucking chase me. I have logs of this too if you want me to post it.
    
    For the record, stepping on a path isn't the same as invading, which is why when you step on a path, it doesn't trigger adrenaline. If you want someone to respond, or someone to not quit out, go hit their guardian.
11. Clifton Change in cabal conduct? -
    If you want to be your bad ass trashy neutral self, and you want to force a fight, do the same thing ever caballed member does. Go capture the item, give it to Zaikkra. Don't fucking tell me I didn't go and defend. I defended, got my ass kicked by your ubergear and level advantage, ran my ass off and healed.
    
    Jesus christ, I still can't believe how you cut and paste this shit out of context.
12. Clifton Change in cabal conduct? -
    gonna apologize for the multiple postings, but i figured i needed to point this out to, just to reiterate how much of this is just pure slander.
    
    "I guess I was that little bit sore for not getting the kill, it does get annoying sometimes when he just keeps quaffing recall and spotted purple potions." -- so we are fighting aren't we? oh yes we are. you said so yourself. so where in the log is it?
13. ivindel Change in cabal conduct? -
    Oh come on, don't exaggerate things, 400 hp a round? Wouldn't you be dead in like 3 rounds minimum? Apparently not. That's besides the point, more importantly, you cannot deny the truth about how the conversation went, which clearly shows how you try to bend your way around to shirking the responsibility to defend. I am sure you know very well that you are supposed to defend but simply do not want to risk dieing in the process. Lastly, I did hit your guardian, in fact, I killed it and sat in your cabal till your guardian respawned with me still in there. That was how long you took to come back, if being low on health is an excuse to not defend your cabal such that you have to heal up to full before defending, then I guess I will have no case. Otherwise, you were obviously in the wrong, no?
14. ivindel Change in cabal conduct? -
    The whole point of me posting this 'log', is to present our conversation in its entirety. Yes, we engaged twice (if I am not wrong) before I invaded and once (if I am not wrong again) after I invaded AND left after the guardian respawn. The reason why I only included the guardian battle is to emphasize the timeline when we started talking, which is when you started giving excuses for not defending. If you noticed, I only did questioning you after I killed the guardian and not before killing it. Mind you, I stayed in there for the whole time till your guardian respawned and you did not even come.
15. Clifton Change in cabal conduct? -
    So, this is in effect slander. Lets review the facts real quick.
    
    We skirmished, I dropped to 15%hp, you at 90%.
    
    You killed the guardian within 3 ticks while I was running off.
    
    And you expect me to come back and defend with 25-35% health.
    
    Not only that, you post a log with intent to slander.
    
    I'll say something else too though. While I was resting to full, I knew the guardian was dead and was wondering when I would've needed to go back and defend the demon necromacer. That never happened did it. When you attacked the guardian again, remember what happened? I came and engaged and ran off again.
    
    So the entire premise of your little whine/bitch/complaint fest is the fact that I didn't come back after 3 ticks while you took out the guardian and ignored the necromancer. I think that sums up this situation pretty well. If you think there's anything I missed, let me know.
16. ivindel Change in cabal conduct? -
    So let me picture this from another point of view. If I am a caballed character, and someone is more decked out and has 4 ranks on me fought me and I lost fleeing with 15%hp and he still has 90% left. I flee and he invaded my cabal, killing my guardian within 3 ticks. At this point of time, I actually have a choice to sleep up to full and not go back to engage him in my cabal for the whole duration till my guardian has respawned as long as he does not attack the mob holding the cabal item, despite him being IN the cabal the whole time. Am I right?
17. erlwith Change in cabal conduct? -
    pretty much. at 15% hp you're not going to do much. this is where choice and strategy comes in. you can try and possibly succeed at distracting the person until they lose enough hp and run off or fail and die, or rest up to full hp while they steal your item and be bound to retrieve it. this is of course where personal player ethics comes in. are you a wimp that rolls neutrals so they can invade on lower level legions or someone who actually enjoys a challenge and prefers to fight to your last 50 hp.
    
    not being in a cabal you are at a purposeful disadvantage against people in cabals, if you want cabal warfare join a cabal or at least choose a side to fight on.
    
    
18. ivindel Change in cabal conduct? -
    First off, I am not trying to slander anyone here because I didn't even know who plays Surezel. This is nothing personal, since I am simply against the fact that a caballed character is ignoring the defense of the cabal despite the first two reasons for cabal defense had already been in effect. If he had returned during the time taken for the guardian to respawn, there wouldn't be much ground for my stand. To rest up to full, then come back to defend after the full duration of the guardian respawning was just abit too long in my opinion. Of course, this is all subjective to the individual and if this is acceptable, so be it, then I rest my case. Furthermore, I am not trying to hide the fact that I am exploiting the obligation that caballed characters need to defend their cabals, just as a Justicier cannot do shit when someone exploit the payment of the intrusion fine and then not allowed to attack ex-intruders as long as they are back in town.
19. fenix Change in cabal conduct? -
    Well Clif this makes you look like your a pussy. I say post your logs so we can hear/read both sides of the story.
20. iolo Change in cabal conduct? -
    "At this point of time, I actually have a choice to sleep up to full and not go back to engage him in my cabal for the whole duration till my guardian has respawned as long as he does not attack the mob holding the cabal item, despite him being IN the cabal the whole time. Am I right?"
    
    
    In my opinion yes you're right. There is some room to move within the cabal rules when it comes to defending. Sounds like Clifton defended, almost died, ran off to heal with the intent to come back and fight more, or if you had done your invasion right come back to retrieve the skull from you. Its within the rules for him to choose HOW he defends, be it run off to heal and come back, or stand there and die while defending. I generally played Jaqr the latter way, dying honourably while defending ra ra go Knights, but the downside there was I was a ghost and the Cross gets taken.
    
    I don't think its fair for you to post this log without ALSO posting the logs from your fighting. In its present form, the log makes it look like Surezel didn't fight you, which according to Clif is just not the case.
21. bassball Change in cabal conduct? -
    I think my only problem with it is that Clifton said you should attack the necromancer.. That just didn't sit well with me is all.
    
    As far as cabal defense goes, yeah, didn't really do anything too wrong here I guess. Taking the replies into account cause the log is just conversation. Didn't really do anything right either though. I'm sure he could've come a bit sooner or something. But not uninduct worthy from where I'm sitting.
    
    Also, why's everyone always slam neutrals for being half-way aggressive? I mean sure neutrals aren't really supposed to go on killing sprees. But you can't freakin expect them to never have an aggressive kill ever. This is AR. A player-killing game... Everyone kills people occasionally.
22. ivindel Change in cabal conduct? -
    Well, that certainly cleared some doubts. If it is actually acceptable to attempt a defense and then run off to heal till the cabal item was taken and then plan to retrieve it, or let the intruder sit idly in there till I have higher hp than him since he don't regen much in the cabal anyway and then plan to defend, then life would have been so much easier. And so, I would then rest my case and truly apologize for kicking up such a fuss.
23. mullet Change in cabal conduct? -
    Cliff isnt in the wrong.
    
    Dying because a guy is fighting your cabal guardian is stupid.
    
    You cant ignore the guy in the cabal. Going about doing something else while your cabal is getting attacked is wrong. Sleeping and coming back/gathering purples/supplies isnt an issue in the least.
    
    And as he said, the guardian isnt what hes super concerned about. stop being a bitch.
    
    And bassball, neutrals arent supposed to be aggressive to those who havnt been aggressive to them. Someone has to step on their toes before they can just go killing people. Though I agree that Legionaires are people you can kill no matter who you are without much beef.
    
    Cliff didnt do anything wrong, besides making a character that needs to be shot/hung. lawl
24. garistha Change in cabal conduct? -
    well as all cabal defense goes, i think sitting outside until the guardian respawns in all honesty was pussy clift. no offense. Yeah well he had significant advantage and hes a neutral trying to pick a bad fight. But hey, if the only defense you're gonna attempt is if he tries to take your item, then its gonna revolutionize "cabal defense". As far as i know you're suppose to defend it even the path, even if it means you die trying. Am i wrong? And oh, you can quit now when someone is in the cabal? Just clarifying.
25. kalist Change in cabal conduct? -
    Having anybody in your cabal (path, inside) who isn't a member of your cabal is a huge insult and you should do everything in your power to evict them. (Pretty sure this is paraphrased right from help cabal conduct)
    
    That being said, you are not obligated to die to somebody just because they are on your cabal grounds. If you fight and are losing, you can flee and heal - that's your choice. Personally I don't see why clif didn't just stand at the cabal guardian and bash you to death.
    
    I think clif's replies were pretty shitty. Reading those made me mad. "I don't care if you are in my cabal I can quit if I want" -wtf? While his actions were ok I think he woulda been better off just not saying anything at all to you.
    
    The advantage you have as a non-cabal (as you pointed out) is that you can force cabal chars to FIGHT you (i.e. not die) to you by attacking their cabal. If he was defending, fighting you in his cabal in Darkhaven (Hometown + no recall anyway) and you failed to kill him, then that's a fail on your part. That means he's a way better runner than you are a tracker. Gives you something to work on.
26. lmauge Change in cabal conduct? -
    i thought chars were supposed to be a secret. Anyways\t ivindel what are you doing fighting someone with 4 ranks on you. Why don't you pinnacle and find someone to kill. Braqgrun tried to kill me when I was rank 40 then he helped me rank to 50 then I killed him lol. Stop hiding behind the fact that you wanted an easy kill and met someone who could run better than you could track. Btw in all cabals first rule of thumb is defend cabal, then rank, then enforce protection, oath or what ever keepers call their stuff. so killing him before he kills you is just a blatant lie. I don't like clifton and I agree that he responded in a piss poor way ingame but your actions aren't justified either.
27. ivindel Change in cabal conduct? -
    To kalist:
    With regard to the tracking part, I have to admit that I am no good at predicting where the teleport spell can bring him to and it just gets tiring to check every single area everytime he teleports. Other than that, I think I am quite happy with the fact that many people feel that it is not an obligation to die to somebody just because they are on their cabal grounds, because that really changes things on my part.
    
    To imauge:
    First off, I was never hiding behind the fact that I did fight him with an advantage of 4 ranks. And, don't try to be a saint here flaming me for making use of the rank advantage because this is what the exp penalty is for (clearly a giant has certain advantages over other races to suffer such high exp penalty) and I had been a victim of such disadvantaged situations too.
    
    With regard to tracking, I could say that I was able to track him to the next area and specific room every now and then (though I did not post the log here because all that chasing is a long one), till he decided to teleport away at certain instances, which I couldn't do much about (unless you can predict where he teleports to, then I think you are no better than me). We all know that running had always been easier than tracking, especially in a warrior to warrior fight, and I never once did deny the fact that I couldn't track him after he teleported.
    
    Lastly, I have reasons to be aggressive against him because (for the sake of ingame context) first off, he is a legionnaire, and secondly, it was in the heritage of dwarves and giants to not like each other anyway. So, if you are looking for reasons in game to why I chose to attack him first, you got it. Otherwise, I am sure everyone else has their own agenda for pking another character because this is still a game afterall and we are all players.
28. rekkakun Change in cabal conduct? -
    Imague: You are wrong in your cabal conduct. Yes, they are supposed to defend first, then rank, then enforce protection etc etc. But if cabal defense is not needed, nobody is around to rank with, then they wld be enforcing protection. Which in this case Wicigogord struck first. Nothing wrong with him doing that against a Legion.
    
    Paths in my opinion are supposed to be defended. Otherwise why the fuck wld you be informed someone was stepping on it? It is part of your cabal. However some people would argue it is not part of cabal and the imms do not enforce it, so be it.
    
    and yes, you can run at 15% health to heal up, but you MUST RETURN to defend and evict people from your grounds once you are healed up. Be it whether he's fighting your necromancer or not. If he's standing in your grounds not fighting the necromancer and you quit off just because your adrenaline is calmed... I think you should be uninducted for that shit.
29. Kessor Change in cabal conduct? -
    Figured I'd throw in my two cents. Everyone else did. Remember that character (I think Pip's? I'm not sure whose, tbh) that got uninducted because he told someone who he was?
    
    If this went down as Clif claims, he didn't actually DO anything wrong. His tells were bullshit, but when I had intelligence evil characters I would try to confuse and trick my enemies to make them think I was(n't) coming when the opposite was true. Just to get a little advantage. That COULD be what he was doing. If so, you're a fire giant. You're the dumbest shit there is in Thera. Don't try mind games with a fire giant, they're not smart enough for that. If that's NOT what he was doing, then that's even worse.
    
    Also, I've heard from many people that Surezel keeps "not defending". I personally don't know as I've never invaded Legion while he was online, but if a lot of people are saying it (and they are), I tend to wonder, "Hm. Maybe he's not cut out for this."
    
    Also, it makes it harder to believe you when you say you're losing 400 hp a round. As was already said, that would mean you would be dead in three rounds easy. I doubt you fought less than three rounds. I mean, "Attack wici;flee;run"? Okay... right. Maybe if you were an elf fighting a pimped out ranger at disadvantage with iron arrows and a pimp bow and pets. But it's really hard to believe you in this particular case.
    
    I would personally advise caution to Surezel. This is the same kind of thing that happens every time right before an uninduction, almost.
    
    
    Oh, and if you posted your log, that probably couldn't make you look worse than this one does.
30. Zalastran Change in cabal conduct? -
    Legion are supposed to be the baddest most feared mofu's out there. They are supposed to act like it. It states plainly in cabal Conduct NOT to encourage attacks on your cabal. Yet, Legion character clearly said I dont care about the door guard, attack the Altar guard. He shouldnt of done that, as that is encouraging Wici to do so. That said, If you wanted him that bad you should of just taken the skull and sat at Zaikkra once you did. Even if you cant track for shit, you might of gotten lucky. But then, what probably would of happened, is you would of gotten beat up by the demon necromancer and got caught with your pants down. Legion door guard tends to respawn pretty fast at times, and I easily see you getting trapped inside with the skull and getting bashed to death...
31. rekkakun Change in cabal conduct? -
    You tell Surezel 'I shall see how long I can sit in here.'
    
    Surezel tells you 'What, you mean doing nothing?'
    
    Surezel tells you 'Do you know the difference between an annoyance and an intrusion?'
    
    This is fucking bullshit. Someone sitting in your cabal grounds doing nothing is an annoyance?? -WTF? Then what is intrusion? Please enlignten me?
32. davor Change in cabal conduct? -
    there is like 20 people total playing this game, and if this thread is any sample 80% of them are whiny douchy bitches.
    that said, posting out of context logs is less fun then eating cock...
    at least thats what baer told me...
33. hampster Change in cabal conduct? -
    Davor. Eat shit and die, M'kay pumpkin?
    
    Clifton should be defending. I don't know if he did or not, this log didn't really show. Some of the shit he said was kind of not in keeping with basic cabal knowledge. Which surprises me, since Clifton is a pretty Vet player.
    
    I am also surprised that he decided to out himself. Fucking weird man, what the fuck happened?
34. neria Change in cabal conduct? -
    I had the opportunity to watch a battle between keepers and legion as Trogm and Adwaud attempted to invade to purge Volk of his rares.
    
    The moment Trogm entered Lacromose Temple, Volk recalled, despite being in Big Nasty wounds condition, and immediately proceeded to attack Trogm. Despite dying to the 2v1 gank, the alacrity with which he attempted to defend his cabal and his sense of duty were commendable. Now this is what I call cabal defense.
    
    Now compare that with surezel.
    
    Surezel tells you 'Maybe you should attack the necromancer if you really want to provoke me.'
    
    r-o-f-l
35. erlwith Change in cabal conduct? -
    people like neria should have to fill out an application before they're allowed to get forum names, and another app before they're allowed to post.
36. Azazhog Change in cabal conduct? -
    Well I took Surezels item today, captured it and he simply quit the game in responce to that.
37. ivindel Change in cabal conduct? -
    Now that it has come to this. If leaving the realms with the cabal item still captured is alright, without even any attempt to attack the acolyte to retrieve it, then I guess nothing else is left to be said anymore.
38. Azazhog Change in cabal conduct? -
    Oh he did come to the Acolyte once, without even putting up aura. I hit him for exactly two rounds, he ran, waited for adrenaline and quit. Didnt even manage to touch the Acolyte tho.
39. neria Change in cabal conduct? -
    and people like erlwith should clean the shit stains off his nose before leaving his closet
40. mullet Change in cabal conduct? -
    Erlwith, owning the most noob move in cabal history, should really not judge anyone.