Dotel vs Aniyan

1. Shaun Dotel Vs Aniyan -
   That wasn't very nice.... Aniyan, No worries =D
2. oreno Dotel vs Aniyan -
   why isn't your dex maxed out?
   
3. Kapruski Dotel vs Aniyan -
   tyrone is an actual deity? how is that RP? I saw warcries of "tyrone, bless" and crap, thought it was some emote change they'd made, and I just rolled my eyes at them. lovely immersion breaker in a deity to worship.
   
   Also he doesn't have dex maxed is because of min/maxing. That 2 dex = 20 extra health or 40 extra moves. This is more efficient for a caster class as dex isnt tied to a defense. Also, a good set of EQ will usually run you over your limits for +dex or str or anything else.
   
   Imagine if the Tight Fitting Green Dragonscale Shirt also came with 20-30 HP along with the 3 dex and save mental 9. Thats ridiculously good. say you only get -2 dex after a perfect roll, but also -1 str, you can have something that adds Str and some hitroll or dam but costs dex, then you add on the shirt and your dex is perfect. you save those trains and put them into 30 hp. bam! you're running around with a 30 HP advantage over perfect stat trainers.
4. Kapruski Dotel vs Aniyan -
   I also forgot to mention that as a shammy he could load up on very nice items that cost him strength, like wooden rings and such, and then instead of having to balance it out with other EQ, cast Giant Strength and have deficit that is Magically covered so that he can add on as much of these goodies as possible, and be stronger in a certain area by not having to play the stat balance game.
   
   stat balancing is a power limiter. any spell that subverts stat balancing increases the range of potential power and specialized EQ builds. Its very sexy.
5. divsky Dotel vs Aniyan -
   I've got to disagree with the stat thing. There's a lot of things stats affect that you're not going to find in the helpfiles. A lot of skills will check stats, both on use offensively, and defensively. They make a huge difference, and even though dexterity isn't as important for a cleric as other stats, it's still important. More important than 20 hp.
6. Kapruski Dotel vs Aniyan -
   Im pretty sure they are covered in helpfiles.
   
   hobble? Strength.
   dirt kick % to hit and Timing? dex/class.
   
   I never said subpar stats was good. I said its good to max stats out with items if you can find them and save any trains for hp/mana/move if you happen to be a good min/maxer.
   
   you max the stat any way you can. If that means you have the knowledge to put together a suit that compliments any and all of your stat deficiencies while you train hp instead, you're going to be more powerful than someone with out it.
   
   Lets take an example.
   
   Warrior 1 trains out all his stats. He wears a setup that gives him too much dex by 3 or 4, too much int by 1, too much wis by 2, and too much str by 1.
   
   warrior 2 perfectly rolls. he somehow is of a race that his int and dex arent maxed by far, but his str and wis are. Now warrior two can wear that same suit without trains put in and max out int and dex. so we say 4-5 trains not needed. He trains up his Wis, since switching out anything for wis would mean lowering dam/hitroll for 2 wis and the unused trains of 2 for 20 health, or an item that's 2 wis and 20 health. Since this is a bad trade he trains into wis. But since all the rest of the stats are already taken care of, he can put trains into hp/mana/move, and this increases the power given by the suit because the stat buffs aren't wasted, and he was able to buy something else that increased his personals.
   
   so warrior 1 has 1000hp/300m/450mv
   warrior 2 chooses mv for 1000hp/300m/530mv
   or choose hp for 1040hp/300m/450mv.
   
   This min max wont help players who need to work on the fundamentals, but a good RNG round for some expert where 20-30 HP is the difference between a win and a loss and the person who bought more HP comes out the winner.
   
   The dedicated types use every angle, and take every advantage. To not do so would be to stay in mediocrity.
   
   Lets say I have the option to buff myself, but it takes a lot more work for a little bit of gain. If that little bit of gain gives me just a fractional edge over the competition, I can be lazy and say "fuck it", and so I have no fractional edge. I could choose to put in the effort and get the reward of that edge, which would cause me to win more often in close neck and neck scenarios.
   
   I should choose getting 1 more advantage if I have any desire to win more and be more competitive. It wion't help me if I can't get down the fundamentals, but it will help me if I'm at far end of the spectrum where everything I can personally do, such as timings being crisp and well executed, variables being reduced and isolated by superior "game development and planning", and honed strategies and tactics to increase my chances of winning to the furthest possible, then baseline stats that can be increased to give me even more of an edge will work in my favor, especially if I know how to take advantage of those small numbers.
7. Kapruski Dotel vs Aniyan -
   I'd like to illustrate it more easily.
   
   Human warrior.
   
   21 20 20 20 20. nothing into HP.
   
   black laminated armor
   
   Object 'black laminated armor' is type armor, material adamantium.
   Extra flags: anti_good.
   Weight is 9 lbs, value is 30, level is 20.
   Armor class is 9 pierce, 11 bash, 9 slash, and 4 vs. magic.
   Affects save_vs_afflictive by -2.
   Affects hitroll by 1.
   Affects dexterity by 2.
   Rare item.
   
   21 20 20 18 20. 2 into HP for 20 HP
   
   black laminated armor
   
   Object 'black laminated armor' is type armor, material adamantium.
   Extra flags: anti_good.
   Weight is 9 lbs, value is 30, level is 20.
   Armor class is 9 pierce, 11 bash, 9 slash, and 4 vs. magic.
   Affects save_vs_afflictive by -2.
   Affects hitroll by 1.
   Affects dexterity by 2.
   *Affects HP by 20*
   Rare item.
   
   In the previous example that dexterity is wasted. In the latter, dex actually gets used, making the stats worthwhile and making the rare worthwhile, and with those freed trains bought 20 hp, so you could consider the item itself to be bringing you maxed dex, 20 hp, 1 hit, and 2 affsave.
   
   Thats powerful compared to 1 hit and 2 affsave with wasted 2 dex.
8. divsky Dotel vs Aniyan -
   Your argument would be completely valid if there wasn't mountains of equipment that takes away from your stats as well. In fact, some of the best equipment in the game have huge -stat penalties attached to them, including a lot of the best gambled gear and forged equipment. So in your example, the human warrior really has no reason to be going around with an extra 2 dex, when he could take that extra 2 dex and turn it into extra damroll for himself.
   
   Basically what you're doing, especially with the dexterity stat, is trading damroll for hp. Which is fine if that's what you really want. But you're still making a sacrifice.
9. cryith Dotel vs Aniyan -
   not only from what divsky said but think about those skills that take stats away like hobble, caltraps, plague etc. etc.
   
   The human warrior with max stats and that armor that gives +2 dex is gonna be better than the warrior that does not have max stats
10. oreno Dotel vs Aniyan -
    i dunno id rather get the +2 damage with spiked guard armor than the +3 dex from tight shirt just to balance my dex out.. Trust me the +2 dam extra is gonna help me win a fight, if I am at 40hp left chances are I should have fled already or im 1 hit from death.
11. divsky Dotel vs Aniyan -
    One thing I discovered once is that, on equipment, if you equip to balance out any deficit, 1 point of str or dex is equal to half a point of hit/damroll. Quick example
    
    Arms: Mithril
    Hands: Red Dragon
    Legs: Mithril
    Feet: Red Dragon
    Head: Mithril
    Torso: Red Dragon
    
    This gives a total of 6 damroll and 3 hitroll, for a total of 9, over 6 pieces of equipment. That's an average of 1.5.
    
    Mithril: 1 hitroll + 1 dex = 1.5
    Red Dragon: 2 damroll - 1 dex = 1.5
    
    Let's say I through in the the tight fitting green dragonscale shirt which is 3 dex (.5x3 = 1.5)
    
    Arms: Mithril
    Hands: Red Dragon
    Legs: Red Dragon
    Feet: Red Dragon
    Head: Red Dragon
    Torso: Green Dragonscale
    
    That's 8 damroll and 1 hitroll. Total of 9, for an average of 1.5 again. Now what if I used a couple of peices of bronze dragon eq which is 1 str and 1 dex (.5 x 2 = 1.0) and used golden dragonscale (2 hitroll, -1 str. Total of 1.5) to use up the strength?
    
    Arms: Bronze Dragon
    Hands: Bronze Dragon
    Legs: Red Dragon
    Feet: Red Dragon
    Head: Golden Dragon
    Torso: Golden Dragon
    
    I get 4 damroll and 4 hitroll, for a total of 8. Which makes sense, because I replaced items worth 1.5 with items worth only 1.0, so I lost a total of 1 hit/damroll.
    
    This trick works on all the equipment in the game. And generally, the cut-off between non-rare and rare equipment is 1.5. Anything higher than that will be rare. Sets (radiance, thews, beast) let you get higher than that as well.
    
    So Oreno is right spiked garde armor is better than the tight fitting shirt because spiked garde is worth 2 hit/damroll and the shirt is worth only 1.5.
    
    There's also a relationship in the game between constitution and svs, but that isn't fleshed out as much so the math doesn't really work there.
12. Kapruski Dotel vs Aniyan -
    yes these balancing relationships should be obvious. If you take full red dragon and you need cloaks of dreamseeking and whatnot to balance it out those cloaks could've been rares that give dex and damroll. this is just natural eq progression. stat balancing lowers your overall bite for better defenses and such by keeping your stats maxed.
    
    If we're talking about the properties of stat reducing skills and spells like poison and hobble, you should be aware that the former can be countered completely by staying out of combat style disadvantage, while the latter can be cruise controlled with mal saves. Which goes back to the age old question, do I wear malsave or try to just burn them down with 80 dam. Well malsave does more than just keep you from getting stat reduced, it keeps you from getting hitroll reduced, awareness reduced, etc etc.
    
    protection from one is protection from all in the instance of saves. while hobble has near immunity if you are in combat advantage all the time, which is a factor of luck because of the blind rock paper scissor switching game involved.
    
    http://abandonedrealms.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2338&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=stat+train&start=20
    
    Well if you lose to a gnome warrior who has > 90% health, its not going to make much difference to you whatever you roll.. but if you were playing at the highest level of the game, in cabals, and lets assume that all classes are balanced equally... then the roll unquestionably tips the odds slightly in your favour. And history has shown it'll count. When you crawl out of a cabal defence gangbang with 9 hp out of 800 and a full set of ownage rares your cabal can't afford you to lose, crap running down your legs, having earned that 10 hp becomes the right thing to do, regardless how dull and boring rolling for 1 hour instead of 1 minute was. Would you roll if it determined your eventual damroll? Well it does. Think about how much time you'll invest into gambling, getting eq. Its just another way of getting your secondary attributes, or however you decide to use the bonus trains. Now consider that this particular bonus is just as "permanent" as a tattoo or mastered dirt or something. How much does mastered hide really matter? You can flee and hide a second time right?
    
    * its just as easy to write a stat roller, and roll a -1 max, than it is to write one and master sneak & hide, and it arrives a lot sooner *
    
    Its a possibly stupid choice to leave those stats at base and start looking for stat eq as well though. This option is one which to the average schmuck just isn't worth taking. I think at lowest level play (Heralds & newbies/ trash), being -1 dex or something like that is no more than a nuisance for optimizing the hardest-hitting composite non-rare hit/dam/gamble suit to provide damage for winter groups or mob/newb bashing. Whereas for me, I'd rather extend my life by a few rounds longer, to make up for contingiencies like not-fleeing-from-dirts, and allow more time for me to outplay my opponent, as opposed to having 2 damroll and finishing a mob off in 29 hits instead of 30. You get good value out of leaving stats base, a lot higher than you do from hp eq. Just look at mithril upon deficient dex that was spent into hp instead of trained.. instead of getting 1 hit 1 dex you effectively get 1 hit 10 hp instead. That's rare quality. I've pked most people on AR that actually whore damage hard, so I think I know what I'm talking about. The double training at level 1 is also very nice, but you're being kinda lazy if youre gimping your roll to turn a -1 into a -2. I've done that too with characters that were still fun, but not when I planned making a monster.
    
    Of course it is your character and there are no wrong choices. Some people dont play AR for the pk at all. I would certainly respect your decision to avoid spending your time doing something you find unenjoyable, it could be time spent gathering eq from Winter instead, or whatever. That'd make a much bigger difference than rolling. But by the same token I wouldnt call it "power playing" just to get a max roll. Its when people start deleting level 8's over and over that it begins to get a bit stupid. (Theoretically, you could just keep rerolling over and over from 1-50 with brand new max rolls, until you finally created a 1050 hp freak character, but just having to lose a roll in deleting generally puts most people off doing that, otherwise, they'd try. So love the roller. It recognises that people want a way to improve their hp and provides a way to limit it to something so easy that everybody can compete equally for)