Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig

1. Taelrask Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
   This is total crap. The change to material vuln totally fucked elves, drow, storm giants... Even elememtal vulns dont deal damage like this.
2. xenyar Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
   The whole ygin reign prompted the vuln change. As you see, the amount of elves and drow being created are on the verge of non existence. Best case senario in this battle is you dont try to dispel, and have more time to run. because you really didnt have a chance. All your fighter class vs caidolese logs is you getting effortlessly raped. A noob can wear a hell-blade and red dragon, and spam murder...... is this the way its intended?
3. taelrask Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
   Its totally stupid. One hellstream would of given the same result except you wouldnt of been able to flee. used to be an elf invoker stood a damn good chance, especially against a player like Hadleigh... This completly takes any player skill out of the equation.
4. Kapruski Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
   I have to agree with taelrask.
   
   Look at the way defenses are handled.
   
   STR DEX CON/WIS. I think STR/INT has become parry, sounded like the imms hinted at that before, but I don't know.
   
   anyway. Its a self evident fact that dex is the king stat for autosneak races. Its the reason why warriors and rogues of that kind get a fighting chance. post Combat modules, how many elves or drow do you see as warriors? They're still viable, but it takes a lot more work because one hobble and you're screwed.
   
   Next, caster classes. They lose their powerhouse defense through dex, but they make up for it by having autosneak for first strikes with nukes. I played a drow shaman once, it wasn't pretty. defenses never worked, even as this was post combat and magic module changes so I had weapon ward, so I was always having to flee and heal, which leads to no mana to fight with and there it is I'm either dead or running. So Im probably not the best player right, I mean, initiating trying to land mals, those things which are supposed to be part of combat, even with malbreaks, rarely worked and landed me with no hp/mana and little to show for it. I guess there's only one way to fight properly with that combo?
   
   Next we get to the other defenses. All classes get parry, parry is based on strength. therefore elvish races have the worst parry in the game. We can see this to be self evident. Elvish races also have the worst CON in the game, contributing to lackluster shield block, even before factoring in the invoker shield block penalty thats a class specific issue. worst con also means worst health. Sure you can put trains into health, but focusing all trains into health just barely brings you back up to the level of a human mage, who was able to put their trains into any of the three fight or flight stats.
   So then to add onto that, when vulns for elvish races were limited to projectiles only, and thus shield blocking was actually a smart way to fight and it contributed to greater divisified fights, now that all material vuln weapons do damage, in contribution with low health and shit defenses, what we see here is what we get.
   Remember, dodge is their go to defense, and caster classes don't get this. a massive mana pool does not make up for being two rounded. Preps do not heal fast enough to be a viable option at this point, unless you have cabal heal scrolls. And the answer to racial/class issues should never be "should've gone (cabal)".
   
   just my 2c.
5. iolo Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
   Someone should start a thread on ar.com so the immortals see it (officially).
6. morgit Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
   Have to agree, IF Hadleigh wasn't decked, which I doubt she was. Routine disembowels through sanc just based on a fairly common weapon is stupid. Its not like elf invokers were stupid OP to begin with, this nerf seems unwarranted. That being said, why is Caidolese still using the punch against a ranger? Thats really crappy parry, and Hadleigh isn't even a giant...
7. Kapruski Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
   that'd be more or less the point. an underrepresenting and more difficult to succeed race gets additional vulns?
8. taelrask Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
   I have fought and killed Hadleigh more times then I can count. Always in Malicious beast. Throw in one or two rare weapons usually and sometimes a gambled ring or something.
9. Vertas Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
   I think whats difficult here is what makes sense from an rp standpoint and what makes sense for an actual gameplay standpoint... Unfortunately it conflicts here... I understand Elves for example not being able to touch iron... It's an impure metal and whatever... But at the same time Kap is absolutely right, Elven casters get totally fucked...
10. Kapruski Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
    I also consider it worth notice or interesting that no race gets their racial ability completely removed instantly by a skill like autosneak to hobble.
    
    Yes, you can avoid racials like giant resist physical by magic weapons, or even vuln them, but they still have their racial, and the game worked on the pretext that these were acceptable risks, and the bonuses of high parry, high weight capacity, and high hp was offset by the vulns, which leaves physical resist in a neutral position.
    
    the only clear advantage of elven races are more mana, slightly less conentration losses for low trained spells, and autosneak.
    
    given that their exp cost and their low hp and defense stats apart from dodge are based on the ability to autosneak, which is as important to elves as the hp/regen is for giants, does it seem correct to have it automatically taken away with hobble? If it can be so, should the elves now have less exp cost?
11. tayyah Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
    and you know the fact that you can master abilities with elves in the time it takes for a couple % pts on a giant doesnt have any weight either or the 3 prac for 75% vs 1... im sure I could find more if i actually bothered
12. Kapruski Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
    well then, lets give two of these, one from each race, full maxed skills and spells at level 50. the giant has extra health. it easily copes with the autosneak first strike the other race manages to get. Alternatively, the other race gets hobbled and it becomes an easy target for scripted autoattacks n entering rooms. also its dex is shot apart.
    
    I was assuming that the slow practices are counted into the equation of giants and their cost like elves were. but the game has changed quite a bit since those costs were calculated.
    
    remember that the elf gets all those spare practices to convert into health, and must do so with lower defenses. The giant gets massively extra health, and is forced to convert the trains into practices or go with 1 prac enhanced learning training regimens for a decidedly deadly character at high ranks.
    
    the issue of the practices and trains, of the faster vs slower training, and of the autosneak vs giants vuln/resist/high hp/good defenses were all calculated out when the game opened. A lot of chances have occured since then.
    
    Im perfectly willing to listen to people who play both strength warriors and dex mages or whatever else tell me they're fine as is. I just have a hard time seeing it that way when new introduced skills totally deflated some races by stats and by their racial, while other races simply shrugged at the new skills.
    
    
13. ergorion Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
    autosneak can be nullified to some degree. If you're playing a race with infravision, or you have infravision up, you can be in a dark room with your light removed. When a sneaking elf enters the room will brighten. This strategy can also be countered if the elf removes his light as well.
14. Vertas Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
    I played an elf illusionist something like two years ago... And found him terribly terribly squishy... It's probably something that takes getting used to, but I never got used to it. I haven't rolled a mage type character since.
15. rezakhan Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
    From my view (not having ever played an invoker), it seems that invokers generally got screwed more than others by the change to spell types. When dispel was controlled by mental, warrior-types basically had four options: 1) Go with mental and afflictive saves to counteract spells, and suffer reduced damage; 2) Go with mental saves and damage gear, count on not losing sanc, deal with DEVASTATES through sanc from hellstream, and have medium damage; 3) Go with afflictive saves and trust you could flee in and out enough when dispelled and have medium damage; or 4) Go with no saves, have max damage, and try to end it quick without eating an unsanced ANNHILATE. Now, a warrior can throw on some afflictive gear to counteract both dispel and hellstream, and still have high damage left.
    The reason the changes screw invokers more than others is that they are really the only class that relies exclusively on attacking spells--If their spells are blocked, shamans/healers can still deal damage with weapons and heal; illusionists can still use their charmies for damage; and necros have their armies plus rend life (which I believe isn't checked by saves). Invokers basically have nothing to fall back on.
16. Kapruski Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
    thats exactly how I feel about it as well. That may be why they involved savebreak items.
    
    Before it was invokers get full health items or get full damroll items.
    
    There's still the full damroll item, but then if people wear saves you aren't getting the benefit of RNG wins due to having crap magic damage and low hit potential.
    
    If you wear hp items, its the same issue. so you must wear hp items and a savebreak now?
    
    It reduced diversity, but maybe when the invoker module is released some things will change.
    
    It reduced diversity, and thats a good thing for other classes. I love just wearing one suit of saves and going on a gank spree vs mages and clerics.
17. morgit Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
    Try that on a shaman and you're toast. Even healers get curse. Hellstream IS a crazy spell though. One mistake and You're dead... provided the invoker can hurt you a little first. In my experience invokers just don't have what it takes to take out well geared melee classes. The flip side of that is that you're MUCH more deadly than a warrior in non-rares. I always saw invokers as a non-gear dependant class who got weaker as their opponents built up on rares. Thats why its so disconcerting to me to see a ranger in malicious beast pumping that kind of damage with a single rare iron weapon.
18. Kapruski Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
    curse happens to be mal, which happens to also be what you collect saves for vs shaman dispel magic. so you get a few high malsave items, and he cant curse or dispel you.
    
    invoker. dispel aff based. save vs his dispel also lowers his damage vs you.
    
    so, how will a shaman toast you?
19. morgit Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
    Well, the obvious combo is hysteria (mental), followed by blind (mal). Most annoying setup in the game in my opinion.
    
    Insomnia is also mental, or they can just spam deteriorate till it gets through and spell you up any way they want.
20. ergorion Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
    Invokers do get screwed by the change to dispel because they do rely exclusively on afflictives (faerie fire isn't really a factor).
    
    Shamans: Insomnia, Hysteria (mentals) as well as flay health (afflictive)
    
    Healers: calm, which is pretty damn interesting, decaying penalty to damroll and warriors/berserkers can't berserk or rage while under its affect (mental) and curse (mal); plus, healers can heal themselves enough that their weapon damage will eventually be enough.
    
    Necros: acid blast (afflictive); plus, they have a fair amount of dps with their armies
    
    Illusionist: slow, very useful against warrior classes; flashfire two round lag with one tick effect makes it suck, but useful if someone bashes or something (mal); colour spray (aff); plus illus get insane dps from charmies.
    
    Invoker: dispel, hellstream, hellstream, hellstream, chain lightning to pick a different aff.
    
    
21. Kapruski Caidolese vs Spiked iron trident hadleig -
    yes Im aware of hysteria, but you're talking at least 2 casts to hit it on someone with some baseline save vs spell item, and then if they've got a few malsave, you're not hitting that blind. and then if you do they just cure with gyvel. malsaves shut down most of what shaman can do.
    
    anyway its no secret that invoker is a little thin on variety, as erg pointed out, hellstream spam (which is actually worse than flame arrow spam unless they aren't sanc), try a dispel here or tere, and chian lightning if you really want to go balls to the wall with mana shield.