Yes, I was there.

1. Kurlson Yes, I was there. -
   Epic
2. cryith Yes, I was there. -
   how is it epic?
3. Kurlson Yes, I was there. -
   If I have to explain it...
4. cryith Yes, I was there. -
   you do
5. kapruski Yes, I was there. -
   because a typical autorape from justice is epic.
   
   this is why noone bothers to attack in town.
6. iolo Yes, I was there. -
   I think there should be more fighting in town, specifically by the Chaotics. They shouldn't be holding back from their ethos just because they might lose their gear.
7. kapruski Yes, I was there. -
   two partners in crime would be unable to act if they were completely unjust, they would not keep their hands off each other! - Plato, The Republic.
   
   when evils work together to gather stuff they get accused of being too chummy, when they fight each other, noone can rank or get eq.
   
   back when it was 30 players at all times, you could go from naked to a basic decent EQ set in 5-10 minutes with help.
   
   with gambled items increasing the baseline of what is "decent eq", and less people online playing, you're looking at an hour or more for a non-suicide suit.
   
   if it takes 5 seconds to die, and 1 hour to get equpped again, you're looking at 61 hours getting gear and 5 minutes worth of "pking" which is really just you getting reamed and full looted over and over for breaking laws.
   
   that is not fun. that is not a healthy use of real time, and if it was forced that chaotics do it, or risk getting slayed, we'd see a lot of people leave, because fun is why you play any game.
   
   61 hours to die in 5 minutes is not fun. and that's disregarding the hours trainign and ranking.
   
   special guards are a death sentence. Not only that, but town guards will trip you up, letting your target get away.
   
   so you're going to risk an hours worth of time for an icicles chance in hell to pk someone in town when you're going to, without fail, be killed and full looted afterward?
   
   Why not just delete the justice cabal and give everyone death tarots...
8. kapruski Yes, I was there. -
   I'd like to make the point that prior to a lot of changes, gambled eq, and the addition of dark oak and living wood (yes, I was around since before armageddon got it's oaken beasts), the "decent eq" set was full red dragon with cloaks of dreamseeking and claw rings, or opals, bandit belt, and huntsman hell-weapons. huntsman weapons also used to be easier to get as well. same way the lord of dark oak had all oaken eq put on him, thenhe got buffed with rage and swing. -_-
   
   even for those things, the bar was raised by gambled items.
9. clawron Yes, I was there. -
   Being chaotic is not the same as being stupid and getting wanted is just plain stupid.
10. ergorion Yes, I was there. -
    If you're a pinnacled illusionist, getting wanted every now and again can be fun. Run around with a flag. Shadowform to fuck with Justices. Gate all over everywhere. Try not to get ensnared.
11. kapruski Yes, I was there. -
    help chaotic: Being chaotic is every bit a commitment as being lawful. Those who are
    unwilling to face the negative consequences of being chaotic should avoid
    them by choosing the neutral ethos.
    
    * NOTE: Chaotics CANNOT use the autopeace command to prevent their pets[Hit Return to continue]
    
    or themselves from assisting in an attack within a protected area.
    However, they are still responsible if their assistance breaks any laws.
    
    
    If lawful are a commitment to never attack in town, the reverse would be to ignore laws. Chaotic cant autopeace.
    
    Neutral Evil:
    Living by the phrase "by any means necessary", neutral evils use any
    and all methods at their disposal to achieve what they want. Honor
    and scruples exist only as weaknesses to exploit, and cruelty is but
    another means of coercion. Whether through taking advantage of laws
    or breaking them while their prey is lulled by its false security,
    neutral evils are bound only by the power they have and their lust
    for more.
    
    
    important line: Whether through taking advantage of laws
    or breaking them while their prey is lulled by its false security,
    
    
    From the common bandit to powerful warrior-lords, many choose to
    follow the path of chaotic evil. These are the ones prone to violence,
    [Hit Return to continue]
    the scoundrels and murderers, the curse and bane of society. Their
    only law is the belief that might makes right. Power in its rawest,
    purest form is the only order among this type, as they only obey those
    capable of crushing them. Yet true chaotic evils will not
    be content to serve their master for long, as it is their nature to
    fight and overthrow, to compete in the eternal struggle to become
    the most powerful.
    
    
    chaotics are clearly not supposed to give one fuck about laws. People do choose chaotic to get wild weapons and then never attack in town.
12. clawron Yes, I was there. -
    Kapruski, read this from your own text: "obey those capable of crushing them"
    
    Now replace "obey those capable of crushing them" with "justice guard and ensnare"
13. kapruski Yes, I was there. -
    right, and is that a fault of players choosing chaotic and not attacking in town, or is it a fault of justice guard being obvious suicide?
14. mendal Yes, I was there. -
    I think that the buff of getting to use wild weapons is supposed to compensate for a requirement to disregard the law. Reequipping is just a huge pain in the ass and everyone wants the buff wild attacks so they roll evil chaotics instead of evil neutrals
    
15. cryith Yes, I was there. -
    the bottom line of all of this is chaotics are NOT CHAOTIC. Yes many people want the pimp wild shit but they don't want to act/rp chaotic.
    
    Sure the special guard sucks ass when you aint a justice, sure re-equiping sucks but it is a part of the game and no matter what ethos you pick sooner or later someone is going to full loot you.
16. clawron Yes, I was there. -
    Someone already forgot the fact that chaotic is not the same as stupid...if chaotic meant you had to suicide every once in a while there are easier/less stupid ways to do it than getting wanted. Ways where your eq is not lost and you dont have to spend time on re-eq.
17. cryith Yes, I was there. -
    ok yeah use that excuse dont worry about being chaotic means you disregard the laws and go ahead and obey the laws because you are to much of a puss to rp the ethos you picked.
    
    Jerol remember him? Chaotic Knight who actually rp'ed being chaotic people can take a lesson from him.
18. clawron Yes, I was there. -
    I remember Jerol, wish there were more people like him, I would roll a justice and have fun stomping on all of those "chaotics". Problem is people usually dont have fun suiciding.
19. deadzero Yes, I was there. -
    Keep in mind the lack in number of rares right now. and as we already discussed, your chances of actually killing a justice with guard are considerably lower, so don't count the 'just kill the justice' as an option of equipping. so not only is it suicide and time to re-equip, it is also generally a step way back on equiping.
20. clawron Yes, I was there. -
    If you read the chaotic evil helpfile most chaotic evils RP it quite well actually. They do break the laws, who says they dont? Most of the time there are no justices around... Its just that when justices are around they dont attack in town not because they suddenly think laws are nice, but they "obey those capable of crushing them", even the helpfile says that... The helpfile does not say they should attack everyone even when its suicide...
21. Astemus Yes, I was there. -
    less rares + less people = even more buff justrices than before, for hoarding the best raes and never dying.
    
    gambled itrems = higher "'competent gear' floor.
    
    less players = more difficult time re-equipping.
    
    before gambled EQ you took armor and weapons wiith bonuses and drarwbacks and used other items that only gave +stats to help even it out.
    
    lets assume you take black-tear. The strength bonus allows teeth necklaces or some other -str items.
    
    you essentially can load up ~ 1.15 hit/dam per slot
    red dragon with the old stuff, band belt and cloak of dreamseeking, is ~1.3.
    
    the red dragon SET is something like 1.5-1.8 depending on your rank.
    
    red dragon with some moderately good gambled is ~1.6 or morer
    
    red dragon with rares is ~1.8 or more.
    
    full non-winter rares ~2.0 or rmore.
    
    Winter rares are ~2.5 or more.
    
    the point is, statistically, gambled items bridge the gap between the old standards and rares, yet a set of gambled, especially if you get all slots can be almost as powerrful as a full rare set, which is a big difference to the old standard gear.
    
    The thing is, getting rares or getting gold for gambling decent items takes time. Either route is going to be arduous.
    
    If rthe number of people playing were greater, going rare hunting would actually be far better than gold farming for gambling, because you could do rares 3x faster.
22. Jluppy Yes, I was there. -
    do people realize that not only getting killed by special guards causes you to lose stuff but also sets your experience back like if you got killed by a MOB?
    
    who in their right mind would say yes to staying rank 30-40 forever because of the obvious justice smacking?
    
    we wanna see condead players at rank 40 now or what?
23. ergorion Yes, I was there. -
    If it meant actually seeing condeathed characters, sure.
    
    I think Tiqa and Iolo are like the only people who ever take characters to condeath. Mad props to them.