Belladona was from an average family from mudfall, one amongst many. She
was neither the oldest nor the youngest. She came too late to be memorable
and too soon to be favored. Her unusual red hair stood out in comparison to
her blonde and brunette sibilings, but not in a good way. She did her best
with the meager education she was given, helped raise her younger sibilings
and took the odd job here and there. Her parents had hoped that she would
marry like her sisters, and in turn become less of a burden on the strained
resources her parents could provide.
She was able to find work at the local tavern, a hole in the wall that
catered to those who preferred to drown their problems in drink rather than
to overcome them through effort. Having been ousted from her home due to
birth of her most recent brother, she was taken in by a wily old crone.
Seemingly frail and weak, the woman was kind but stern, and ran the tavern
with an attitude that brooked no nonsense. She taught Belladona how to be
self sufficient, reliable, and strong. She demonstrated physically how to
handle the more hands-on patrons of the tavern. Belladona was a good
student for all the lack of her natural talents. Many patrons went home
with missing teeth or black eyes, the more insistent nursed broken bones.
A banal but enjoyable existence it was for a time, but Belladona knew there
was more waiting for her out in the world. She was inspired and excited by
the tales her benefactor would spin, of great fighters, warriors, and
slayers of legend. With a wry smile and a slap on the back, Belladona was
sent off with a sackful of coin and a letter of introduction.
Description:
Riotous locks of fiery curls crowns the head of the mature-looking
child-sized woman before you. They drape carelessly over her unusually
large and angular ears down to her shoulders. A smattering of freckles
dusts her plump and rosy cheeks. Her sparkling blue eyes regard the
world with excitement from above a small, upturned nose and thick red lips.
Her dainty toes seem misplaced on her disproportionately large feet. Her
slender legs bear lithe muscles which tighten imperceptibly with each
of her flowing movements. Her small hands bear the marks of heavy use,
both faded and fresh scars. Her chest is bare save for an intricate tattoo
and a tightly wound sarashi that preserves her modesty.
1- 0- 0 Jeruf the Grand Master of Seasons (Fought at rank 50) 0- 1- 0 Charenon the Unholy Knight (Fought at rank 50) 3- 0- 0 Ragruk the Volcano of Infinite Rage (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Dorbin the Holy Patriarch of Healing (Fought at rank 50) 3- 2- 0 Xhao the Grand Master of Seasons (Fought at rank 50) 1- 1- 0 Kellin the Holy Knight (Fought at rank 50) 0- 1- 0 Kryton the Battlemaster (Fought at rank 50) 1- 2- 0 Saseth the Battlemaster (Fought at rank 50) 0- 2- 0 Aerysen the Holy Knight (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Elyr the Wrath of Nature (Fought at rank 50) 2- 1- 0 Zyron the Grand Master of Seasons (Fought at rank 50) 0- 1- 0 Virac the Grand Hierophant of the Forest (Fought at rank 50) 0- 1- 0 Afales the Wrath of Nature (Fought at rank 50)
This would be a good opportunity to discuss any buffs you’d like to see for monks. The only thing on my list currently is kick dismounting horses, although Olyn had a decent list of his own going.
Why not give them barrier, gate and some pets or even Astral projected duplicates, because they have almost everything possible
Honestly I don't see where monks need any buffs.
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
Well Grayden, whether we play monks or not, we can all appreciate raw math. So lets just put this out there. The difference between the good magic weapons and the good physical weapons at a high damroll is not a big one, especially as you are striking against typically 50-100 lower AC than those physical weapons do. So the fact monks have iron body at all is kind of meh, just use magic weapons and its barely different. It could be pulled without the monk suddenly feeling very useless to play and yet less annoying to fight against. Thats just a simple observation anyone can make. It doesnt really do much for them, and other than useful for levelling, its not doing a lot of good for the game (annoys opponents). That being said, it could be traded for something better, and one thing that was on my mind was to pull iron body and instead add in wind walking, which would allow a monk to move around a lot lighter-footed, sort of like flight but without the flying effect. And by the way, Belladona has clearly lost to warriors who can already do that (athleticism)
As a current monk player, I would absolutely trade iron body for something comparable to athleticism, since I think this plays into monks' strengths in a much more enjoyable way. It will also mean that monks will stop trying to fight warriors like warriors and instead fight them more like clerics (since they are a warrior-cleric hybrid to begin with). We can use fly scrolls to help with movement, but I find the drawbacks are too great (worse at dirt-kicking, susceptible to charge, can't track) and, at least in my fight with Kryton, it still wasn't enough
This would make monk much more fun to play, since movement really is the biggest pain point. You can overcome a damage deficit if you can get distance and heal. But since monk heal isn't instantaneous and has a focus time, it means you have to get a lot of distance before you feel comfortable getting some heals in. That ends up draining a lot of movement, especially if you have a skillful pursuer.
As can be seen in the PKing stats, I lost to Kryton twice last month... Part of it may be because I suck, and the second time was almost certainly because I provoked an IC excuse for him to go after me again, but I feel Zyron has explained the situation perfectly.
I see by these graveyard posts that using things as a name (Belladona) or common book names (cera) or names that are essentially words/phrases spelled in a manner that reflects the word/phrase…( you win, we win). When people level to 50 in a day or two, how do we deal with the break in immersion in this rp first mud?
I don't believe anyone reported my name. Halflings get a semi-exception to names if I remember correctly. Also I had at least 70 hours in before getting to 50.
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
Belladonna Took (with two n's) is Bilbo's mother in the tolkien books, so you have to conclude its a valid halfling name, although it is close to a book character. Nobody reported that, though, because it isn't a well-known book character, and that's the important point about it. At some point when the API's are opened up, we can try seeing if chatGTP / bard can help us catch and block names that are very similar to books. Until then we are just dependent on ourselves for being well-read and reporting the names. If your opinion on the problem with the name is that is similar to a plant name though, you're obviously wrong about that, since Tolkien was fine with putting it on what is frankly a noteable character.
Scrynor
1 , 0 , 0 .
I find it immersion breaking that people use detailed out of game knowledge to have their immersion broken...
I never had a problem with movement, though I geared to make sure it wasn't an issue. You absolutely need iron body, but i'd like to see monks get some version of magical protection. Monks already suffer from an AC deficit. Monks can also get temporary fly from crane activation and mobility from tumble. I never had a problem getting away from Kryton unless I was blinded or chain bashed. The problem was maintaining damage reduction and style superiority due to lack of chii from constant style swaps. I'd like to see monks get an exemption from weapon/style advantages. Maybe something like a weapon ward when fasting. That would level the playing field against warriors.
I could see movement not being an issue when you’re a warlord. But I had 700 movement when I fought Kryton and it still wasn’t enough. I think that’s problematic. I know you also fought outside of the arena, but I’m not sure how you managed the movement problem there.
Sounds like we were using the same tools. Did you have more than 700mv? Again the problem wasn’t that I couldn’t run across the world and back. But when you’re skirmishing someone over the course of 45 minutes, you can’t recover movement fast enough. It’s a movement recovery problem rather than a total movement.
Makes sense, excepting the ac on the alternative light armors is the same as the ones on the mv pieces. It’s extremely difficult to break 200 ac on a monk. Might be doable if you could gamble for additional ac on pieces.” Instead of hit, dam, str, dex, hp, etc
I’ve got an AC-mv build at the moment, sitting right at 200ac. I also just want to comment that these strategic conversations are super helpful.
Dogran
1 , 0 , 0 .
200 ac just doesn't seem like a lot, when you have paladins and stuff with 450+ ac.
Mogu
0 , 0 , 0 .
Paladins don't have 450+. They have more like 400 at best, including buffs and holy armor. You could probably achieve 450 by wearing ice armor and some other AC heavy gear at the cost of hit/dam/saves.
Xenyar
0 , 0 , 0 .
With paladin buffs, level 50 heavy AC in all slots that have a AC multiplier, wear wrist and neck items that give AC, and you should hit 450+ AC. And should easily be 40+hit and 40+dam
Mogu
0 , 0 , 0 .
If you're favoring AC on wrists and neck you're definitely giving up significant hit/dam/saves. Is what you're saying achievable? Probably. But I doubt any recent paladins have except for perhaps Aerysen. And I'd be willing to bet he's well under 450. If we're lucky maybe he'll chime in.
Xenyar
0 , 0 , 0 .
Gambled pleated cuffs from Timaran...Hit/Dam and AC.
Null bracers from Shadun...Hit/dam and AC.
I know I can get 40+ hit and dam with 450 AC
For saves just have the eq ready to swap over when you fight a mage/cleric...
Dogran
0 , 0 , 0 .
And on top of that, those same gamblers cN be saves, keeping ac high.
I have played quite a few warlord monks and voiced my displeasure with them on numerous occasions trying a variety of strategies. Stack hp, dam roll, hit roll, ac , balance everything none of it really made a difference against Szrevan or Kryton to where I felt I had a punchers chance. What leaves a sour taste in my mouth about monks is you essentially have 4 defenses, first hand parry, 2nd hand parry, dodge and block but you can still eat 3 to 6 attacks of damage even in the appropriate style. That always felt underwhelming and really disappointing.
Secondly was monk damage just stinks even with great end game eq, doesn't feel the same like if you had that same eq on a warrior, ranger berserker etc.
I don't agree with running and healing as a strategy when you can lose almost half your hp in one round from a weapon switch hobble/bash.
Monks are extremely complicated with counter styles and weapon styles. When Kryton dual wields acid weapons, you can be in snake, but if he double grips or wears a shield, now you can be inferior. So you switch styles for combat superiority or you get hobbled and get eaten alive with concentrated attacks or taking additional magic damage from switching styles. Or he switches to a different magic weapon and you need to remember what style counters that. Its too much.
Now mind you we are talking about the top 1%. Would the fights be as lopsided if Kryton was a duergar or if Kryton did not have such great equipment. The line that was used before is just gank him. But if we want to make monks more playable my suggestion is simple.
Increase monk damage, if I have 60 damroll in tiger, you feel it. If I used leopard stance against a fire giant you feel it like im wielding enchanted frostbrands and icy blue dagger. If I use drunken against a dwarf or duergar you feel like like im using a staff of storms. Having damage mitigation through the stances is too damn complicated, decrease the amount of stances.
Crane - Yes for barrage magic damage while active / offensive
drunk/leopard/tiger magic damage - two handed / defensive / offensive all hits for vulns
monkey - training / good against mages
phoneix - savs / defensive
dragon - for vamps / two handed
"If I used leopard stance against a fire giant you feel it like im wielding enchanted frostbrands and icy blue dagger. If I use drunken against a dwarf or duergar you feel like like im using a staff of storms. "
You lost me at this point when suggesting buffing monk damage was the solution because you're not taking into account the relevant combat style. Leopard is defensive style as opposed to offensive style for dual wielding the weapons you mentioned, and drunken is offensive as opposed to two-handed style for a staff.
Scrynor
0 , 0 , 0 .
I agree and disagree with Ozaru.
The issue isn't complexity and just giving a damage but or vulnerable access just makes them like everybody else. I think the issue is their stances aren't polarized enough. They can get burst but they can't burst other people. Old kung fu movies styles are so dramatic. When your style counters theirs you are untouchable and you mess them up at all. Monks don't play like that at all. I hate reading long attrition monk logs. It just builds in me the longer I read until I'm screaming do something you fancy ass styles! Do something!
I think monks should combine the combat style and weapon type systems. If they get you on both ish should go down. Talking fireworks.
I believe you are making a solid points, but what if you don't count fights against Kryton?
Kryton is a bad example for where a character may be lacking because you are not meant to beat Kryton one on one (well geared seasoned warrior with Legion blessings).
How are your monks faring against everyone else?
Also I do like windwalk while expecting to see iron body turn into full sanctuary because monks are over powered.
With Xhao I died to aerysen a few times due to running out of mv and I had more than base due to black unmoving cape. Think I may have had some boots that have move too. I did use crane but it was short lasting and I utilized water to break tracking but the stallion gave unlimited move. I’m guessing the hunt evil yellow road thing factored in also. Can’t confirm that but I was able to evade Garilax consistently and he seemed similar skill level to Aerysen in combat. Didn’t get a chance to fight kryton so not able to compare there.
The mv is a non issue for a non warlord or maybe for a neutral monk warlord but as an evil monk warlord I would have given my left nut and iron body for something like athleticism.
Unlimited movement would have saved you from dying, not helped you kill him.
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
Ozaru I do not recall you ever playing many shamans (if any) and were probably just dunking with paladins, so I think we can forgive that odd comment you just made, but you should still know the basic principle of attrition warfare, which is where you do damage while retreating to wear the enemy down. you create distance then use it to heal and catch tick. it depends on your opponent not being fast enough to catch up and just quickly kill you (i.e. not running you out of movement points, and not easily closing the gap before you can exploit it), which is why dysentery and the ford are so important for shamans, and why you dont want to duel a warrior in the arena map (a square)
What Davairus said is exactly why I chose the Ford in my battle against Foggledonk during the melee. I was trying for attrition warfare but didn't have enough supplies to sustain it long-term. I think I had 5-7 white herbs left at the end, and no purple potions? It wasn't enough to keep wearing him down. Attrition warfare may be less exciting to do and watch, but it can be effective.
[reply to Davairus]
Honestly I don't see where monks need any buffs.
Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . Well Grayden, whether we play monks or not, we can all appreciate raw math. So lets just put this out there. The difference between the good magic weapons and the good physical weapons at a high damroll is not a big one, especially as you are striking against typically 50-100 lower AC than those physical weapons do. So the fact monks have iron body at all is kind of meh, just use magic weapons and its barely different. It could be pulled without the monk suddenly feeling very useless to play and yet less annoying to fight against. Thats just a simple observation anyone can make. It doesnt really do much for them, and other than useful for levelling, its not doing a lot of good for the game (annoys opponents). That being said, it could be traded for something better, and one thing that was on my mind was to pull iron body and instead add in wind walking, which would allow a monk to move around a lot lighter-footed, sort of like flight but without the flying effect. And by the way, Belladona has clearly lost to warriors who can already do that (athleticism) Zyron 0 , 0 , 0 . As a current monk player, I would absolutely trade iron body for something comparable to athleticism, since I think this plays into monks' strengths in a much more enjoyable way. It will also mean that monks will stop trying to fight warriors like warriors and instead fight them more like clerics (since they are a warrior-cleric hybrid to begin with). We can use fly scrolls to help with movement, but I find the drawbacks are too great (worse at dirt-kicking, susceptible to charge, can't track) and, at least in my fight with Kryton, it still wasn't enough
Ayinti 0 , 0 , 0 . As can be seen in the PKing stats, I lost to Kryton twice last month... Part of it may be because I suck, and the second time was almost certainly because I provoked an IC excuse for him to go after me again, but I feel Zyron has explained the situation perfectly.
[reply to Grayden]This would make monk much more fun to play, since movement really is the biggest pain point. You can overcome a damage deficit if you can get distance and heal. But since monk heal isn't instantaneous and has a focus time, it means you have to get a lot of distance before you feel comfortable getting some heals in. That ends up draining a lot of movement, especially if you have a skillful pursuer.
Belladona 0 , 0 , 0 . I don't believe anyone reported my name. Halflings get a semi-exception to names if I remember correctly. Also I had at least 70 hours in before getting to 50. Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . Belladonna Took (with two n's) is Bilbo's mother in the tolkien books, so you have to conclude its a valid halfling name, although it is close to a book character. Nobody reported that, though, because it isn't a well-known book character, and that's the important point about it. At some point when the API's are opened up, we can try seeing if chatGTP / bard can help us catch and block names that are very similar to books. Until then we are just dependent on ourselves for being well-read and reporting the names. If your opinion on the problem with the name is that is similar to a plant name though, you're obviously wrong about that, since Tolkien was fine with putting it on what is frankly a noteable character. Scrynor 
1 , 0 , 0 . I find it immersion breaking that people use detailed out of game knowledge to have their immersion broken...
[reply to Stiehl26]Yeah, grapple should dismount.
Zyron 0 , 0 , 0 . I could see movement not being an issue when you’re a warlord. But I had 700 movement when I fought Kryton and it still wasn’t enough. I think that’s problematic. I know you also fought outside of the arena, but I’m not sure how you managed the movement problem there. Belladona 0 , 0 , 0 . Kryton tracked me across the entire world several times. Tumble, crane, and +200 mv is was plenty. Lots of options for gear to stand up mv. Zyron 0 , 0 , 0 . Sounds like we were using the same tools. Did you have more than 700mv? Again the problem wasn’t that I couldn’t run across the world and back. But when you’re skirmishing someone over the course of 45 minutes, you can’t recover movement fast enough. It’s a movement recovery problem rather than a total movement. Belladona 0 , 0 , 0 . I maintained between 500-600 mv with items. With transcendence, tumbles, and crane I never came close. I would assume he would run out first. Davairus 1 , 0 , 0 . Well if you had windwalk then you would not need to maintain so much mv and you could itemize instead for AC and there's your AC decifit solved. Belladona 0 , 0 , 0 . Makes sense, excepting the ac on the alternative light armors is the same as the ones on the mv pieces. It’s extremely difficult to break 200 ac on a monk. Might be doable if you could gamble for additional ac on pieces.” Instead of hit, dam, str, dex, hp, etc Zyron 0 , 0 , 0 . I’ve got an AC-mv build at the moment, sitting right at 200ac. I also just want to comment that these strategic conversations are super helpful. Dogran 
1 , 0 , 0 . 200 ac just doesn't seem like a lot, when you have paladins and stuff with 450+ ac. Mogu 
0 , 0 , 0 . Paladins don't have 450+. They have more like 400 at best, including buffs and holy armor. You could probably achieve 450 by wearing ice armor and some other AC heavy gear at the cost of hit/dam/saves. Xenyar 
0 , 0 , 0 . With paladin buffs, level 50 heavy AC in all slots that have a AC multiplier, wear wrist and neck items that give AC, and you should hit 450+ AC. And should easily be 40+hit and 40+dam Mogu 
0 , 0 , 0 . If you're favoring AC on wrists and neck you're definitely giving up significant hit/dam/saves. Is what you're saying achievable? Probably. But I doubt any recent paladins have except for perhaps Aerysen. And I'd be willing to bet he's well under 450. If we're lucky maybe he'll chime in. Xenyar 
0 , 0 , 0 . Gambled pleated cuffs from Timaran...Hit/Dam and AC. Dogran 
0 , 0 , 0 . And on top of that, those same gamblers cN be saves, keeping ac high.
[reply to Belladona]Null bracers from Shadun...Hit/dam and AC.
I know I can get 40+ hit and dam with 450 AC
For saves just have the eq ready to swap over when you fight a mage/cleric...
[reply to Phostan]
Secondly was monk damage just stinks even with great end game eq, doesn't feel the same like if you had that same eq on a warrior, ranger berserker etc.
I don't agree with running and healing as a strategy when you can lose almost half your hp in one round from a weapon switch hobble/bash.
Monks are extremely complicated with counter styles and weapon styles. When Kryton dual wields acid weapons, you can be in snake, but if he double grips or wears a shield, now you can be inferior. So you switch styles for combat superiority or you get hobbled and get eaten alive with concentrated attacks or taking additional magic damage from switching styles. Or he switches to a different magic weapon and you need to remember what style counters that. Its too much.
Now mind you we are talking about the top 1%. Would the fights be as lopsided if Kryton was a duergar or if Kryton did not have such great equipment. The line that was used before is just gank him. But if we want to make monks more playable my suggestion is simple.
Increase monk damage, if I have 60 damroll in tiger, you feel it. If I used leopard stance against a fire giant you feel it like im wielding enchanted frostbrands and icy blue dagger. If I use drunken against a dwarf or duergar you feel like like im using a staff of storms. Having damage mitigation through the stances is too damn complicated, decrease the amount of stances.
Crane - Yes for barrage magic damage while active / offensive
drunk/leopard/tiger magic damage - two handed / defensive / offensive all hits for vulns
monkey - training / good against mages
phoneix - savs / defensive
dragon - for vamps / two handed
snake/mantis/panda why?
Belladona 0 , 0 , 0 . You lose second parry after losing empowerment due to chii loss pretty quickly when switching to try to maintain advantage against a warrior. Belladona 0 , 0 , 0 . Snake slow kicks and silence are good. Ayinti 0 , 0 , 0 . "If I used leopard stance against a fire giant you feel it like im wielding enchanted frostbrands and icy blue dagger. If I use drunken against a dwarf or duergar you feel like like im using a staff of storms. "
Scrynor 
0 , 0 , 0 . I agree and disagree with Ozaru.
[reply to Ozaru]You lost me at this point when suggesting buffing monk damage was the solution because you're not taking into account the relevant combat style. Leopard is defensive style as opposed to offensive style for dual wielding the weapons you mentioned, and drunken is offensive as opposed to two-handed style for a staff.
The issue isn't complexity and just giving a damage but or vulnerable access just makes them like everybody else. I think the issue is their stances aren't polarized enough. They can get burst but they can't burst other people. Old kung fu movies styles are so dramatic. When your style counters theirs you are untouchable and you mess them up at all. Monks don't play like that at all. I hate reading long attrition monk logs. It just builds in me the longer I read until I'm screaming do something you fancy ass styles! Do something!
I think monks should combine the combat style and weapon type systems. If they get you on both ish should go down. Talking fireworks.
Kryton is a bad example for where a character may be lacking because you are not meant to beat Kryton one on one (well geared seasoned warrior with Legion blessings).
How are your monks faring against everyone else?
Also I do like windwalk while expecting to see iron body turn into full sanctuary because monks are over powered.
[reply to Grayden]
Rothak 
0 , 0 , 0 . Agreed. +1 for gnome monk.
[reply to Belladona]The mv is a non issue for a non warlord or maybe for a neutral monk warlord but as an evil monk warlord I would have given my left nut and iron body for something like athleticism.
[reply to Kalist19]
Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . Ozaru I do not recall you ever playing many shamans (if any) and were probably just dunking with paladins, so I think we can forgive that odd comment you just made, but you should still know the basic principle of attrition warfare, which is where you do damage while retreating to wear the enemy down. you create distance then use it to heal and catch tick. it depends on your opponent not being fast enough to catch up and just quickly kill you (i.e. not running you out of movement points, and not easily closing the gap before you can exploit it), which is why dysentery and the ford are so important for shamans, and why you dont want to duel a warrior in the arena map (a square) Ayinti 0 , 0 , 0 . What Davairus said is exactly why I chose the Ford in my battle against Foggledonk during the melee. I was trying for attrition warfare but didn't have enough supplies to sustain it long-term. I think I had 5-7 white herbs left at the end, and no purple potions? It wasn't enough to keep wearing him down. Attrition warfare may be less exciting to do and watch, but it can be effective.
[reply to Ozaru]Playing devils advocate, dose this make mounts less attractive as a class perk?
Ayinti 0 , 0 , 0 . You wouldn't want a mount as a monk since their kick replaces your own. Simple as that.
[reply to Grayden]